So I’ve received at the advice of ST my book “swim workouts for triathletes.” It’s a little intimidating at first as I was swimming in the range of 4-5 swims a week in the 6000-8000 yd range. The workouts in the book get quite long.
I just finished a 2550 yd workout and though obviously a great and for me very challenging workout I question the benefits / vs. drawbacks. Even in the middle of the workout during the fast stuff I was struggling with technique. My SPL go from about 18 when fresh (warm up) to 22-23 when fatigued. Maybe this is normal, or maybe my technique is struggling.
So my question is do I keep hammering the long (for me) yards or shorten things up and increase rest between work bouts so I can maintain better technique. For example I can swim LOTS of 1:30 / 100yd repeats. I could probably do at least 20 of them on 20 seconds rest. However take that up to 1:20 pace and I could probably do 2-3…maybe…lol.
I was planning to hit 10K yd this week. I’ve come a long ways since my 3 lap FAIL in June.
My main set today was:
300, 200, 100 moderate (1:30 pace) with 20 rest
200, 100, 50 negative split with 25 rest
200 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 2:55)
100 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 1:25)
6 x 100 @ 1:30 25 secs rest (supposed to be pull bouy, but I don’t have one)
I suck a swimming and want to improve. The problem is that, as you’ve said, many swim workouts are longer than my longest swim at this point. So do I do my poor form and increase distance, or try to focus on good form and build my distance slower.
So my question is do I keep hammering the long (for me) yards or shorten things up and increase rest between work bouts so I can maintain better technique.
hard to say. you don’t want to get sloppy but on the other hand you need to push to get used to swimming faster. you should get a buoy and use it as suggested, the best time to use it is when you are tired since it helps you maintain good position.
Without the benefit of a coach’s constant nagging, banging out extra yards with crappy form seems counter-productive. Even though it can be a pain to get to the pool I would swim more often.
For example I can swim LOTS of 1:30 / 100yd repeats. I could probably do at least 20 of them on 20 seconds rest.
Wait, what’s the problem again?
I’d say you are fine to start doing the longer workouts and build up your endurance. Mix in some technique drills, some short intervals, long intervals, everything. If you were swimming :30/100 slower that’s a different story, but 20x100 on 1:50 is nothing to scoff at, especially if it’s just a starting point.
I think distance per stroke is a terrible metric to use. Really fast swimmers don’t take too long to make it across the pool, which yields fewer strokes/25 yds. Trying to emulate this puts a lot of stress on the shoulders, and I believe it leads to injury. Elite marathon runners take very long strides because they go so fast, if you tried to have the same stride length you’d invariably end up injured.
What I’m trying to say is, it’s ok to take more strokes/length. You sould worry about technique in terms of not crossing over the midline, and having an early vertical forearm, but don’t try to take 12 strokes/25.
More often than 5 days a week 10K total? At least that’s the plan here for I hope the next couple months.
I try to REALLY concentrate on technique. I noticed today that I was getting fatigued to a point that it was hard to streamline my push-offs during my (open) turns.
I feel that once I learn to flip turn (working on that) that I’m going to suffocate myself underwater losing that one precious breath!
You have to do both things and find the balance. It really depends where you are starting from and how much low hanging fruit there is in terms of technique. Gotta get in shape too. Do both things and let the details sort themselves out.
No I had not seen the vid and really had no idea there were 3 different “styles” like that.
My style would mostly be the gallop. If I focus on symetry it’s hip driven I guess. 80++ cadence is crazy to me, but I’ve seen guys do it and maybe with my kick style (exclusively 2 beat) is something I can work on.
No I had not seen the vid and really had no idea there were 3 different “styles” like that.
My style would mostly be the gallop. If I focus on symetry it’s hip driven I guess. 80++ cadence is crazy to me, but I’ve seen guys do it and maybe with my kick style (exclusively 2 beat) is something I can work on.
Not to mention that SPL is pretty much a worthless metric in OW, and Gerry Rodrigues advocates very high cadence for OWS.
So I’ve received at the advice of ST my book “swim workouts for triathletes.” It’s a little intimidating at first as I was swimming in the range of 4-5 swims a week in the 6000-8000 yd range. The workouts in the book get quite long.
I just finished a 2550 yd workout and though obviously a great and for me very challenging workout I question the benefits / vs. drawbacks. Even in the middle of the workout during the fast stuff I was struggling with technique. My SPL go from about 18 when fresh (warm up) to 22-23 when fatigued. Maybe this is normal, or maybe my technique is struggling.
So my question is do I keep hammering the long (for me) yards or shorten things up and increase rest between work bouts so I can maintain better technique. For example I can swim LOTS of 1:30 / 100yd repeats. I could probably do at least 20 of them on 20 seconds rest. However take that up to 1:20 pace and I could probably do 2-3…maybe…lol.
I was planning to hit 10K yd this week. I’ve come a long ways since my 3 lap FAIL in June.
My main set today was:
300, 200, 100 moderate (1:30 pace) with 20 rest
200, 100, 50 negative split with 25 rest
200 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 2:55)
100 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 1:25)
6 x 100 @ 1:30 25 secs rest (supposed to be pull bouy, but I don’t have one)
For just starting…those are some GREAT splits. I am 41 and I swam for 20 years before laying off for about 15 until I started tris. I am an above average swimmer and my splits in practice are around yours. Use your warmup to do some technique drills. My stroke is fine, but as with most swimmers, it gets “sloppy” as you push harder and get fatigued. Doing things such as fingertip drills, shark fins (high elbows), and catch-up will help build good muscle memory. Also, when you do sprint sets, really focus on form and maintaining your core. At first you may go slower, but you’ll quickly improve by being more efficient.
I’m overhauling my very very average swim and it seems to me that technique first over yardage will gain the most benefits. Why reinforce bad form?
So I’ve cut my yardage back for the offseason and focusing nearly solely on technique.
So I’ve received at the advice of ST my book “swim workouts for triathletes.” It’s a little intimidating at first as I was swimming in the range of 4-5 swims a week in the 6000-8000 yd range. The workouts in the book get quite long.
I just finished a 2550 yd workout and though obviously a great and for me very challenging workout I question the benefits / vs. drawbacks. Even in the middle of the workout during the fast stuff I was struggling with technique. My SPL go from about 18 when fresh (warm up) to 22-23 when fatigued. Maybe this is normal, or maybe my technique is struggling.
So my question is do I keep hammering the long (for me) yards or shorten things up and increase rest between work bouts so I can maintain better technique. For example I can swim LOTS of 1:30 / 100yd repeats. I could probably do at least 20 of them on 20 seconds rest. However take that up to 1:20 pace and I could probably do 2-3…maybe…lol.
I was planning to hit 10K yd this week. I’ve come a long ways since my 3 lap FAIL in June.
My main set today was:
300, 200, 100 moderate (1:30 pace) with 20 rest
200, 100, 50 negative split with 25 rest
200 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 2:55)
100 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 1:25)
6 x 100 @ 1:30 25 secs rest (supposed to be pull bouy, but I don’t have one)
You are doing fine. Everyone – at least every good swimmer – struggles with technique when fatigued. Check any post-race olympic swimming interview for proof. Like others have said, drop the strokes per length obsession.
I’d keep the distance, and just dial back the pace a bit. The bulk of your workout proper (ie. excluding warm-ups and warmdowns) should be at aerobic threshold pace with somewhat limited rest.
Generally with a nice aerobic set, you’re huffing moderately at the end of each rep, and getting about 10 seconds of rest per 100 swum. When you’re commonly getting 20+ seconds of rest per 100/ I suspect you’re at more of an anerobic pace, in other words going a little too fast for trying to build a nice swim base.
Take your 6x100 set- 1:55 sendoff time for each rep, getting 25 full seconds of rest. Relax it in the water so you’re coming in at, say 1:35/100 and going off at a 1:45 sendoff time. Or if that doesn’t work, a 1:50 sendoff time, and a pace of 1:40/100. Something like that is probably where you want to be most of the workout, and only go faster than that pace for maybe 20% of total yardage for now.
There’s a sweet spot between hammerfest and all drills-all the time when it comes to building endurance in a new swimmer. You’ve probably just got a little tweaking to do to find that.
Thank you. The book I picked up has all kinds of workouts but the pacing is somewhat difficult to understand / nail down. I’m not 100% sure what all the paces mean and don’t see explanations in the book…lol.
For example I know what “negative split” means, but not sure what sort of effort I’m supposed to be applying to that 200, 100, 50 set at negative split. Same with the “pull” sets. Again not exactly sure what sort of effort to apply.
Next week I’ll do the formal T-test the books speaks of. I think it’s 3 x 300 with a short rest. Then I’ll know more about pacing. I’m guessing I’ll fall right in the 1:30 range.
So I’ve received at the advice of ST my book “swim workouts for triathletes.” It’s a little intimidating at first as I was swimming in the range of 4-5 swims a week in the 6000-8000 yd range. The workouts in the book get quite long.
I just finished a 2550 yd workout and though obviously a great and for me very challenging workout I question the benefits / vs. drawbacks. Even in the middle of the workout during the fast stuff I was struggling with technique. My SPL go from about 18 when fresh (warm up) to 22-23 when fatigued. Maybe this is normal, or maybe my technique is struggling.
So my question is do I keep hammering the long (for me) yards or shorten things up and increase rest between work bouts so I can maintain better technique. For example I can swim LOTS of 1:30 / 100yd repeats. I could probably do at least 20 of them on 20 seconds rest. However take that up to 1:20 pace and I could probably do 2-3…maybe…lol.
I was planning to hit 10K yd this week. I’ve come a long ways since my** 3 lap FAIL **in June.
My main set today was:
300, 200, 100 moderate (1:30 pace) with 20 rest
200, 100, 50 negative split with 25 rest
200 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 2:55)
100 fast with 30 secs rest (swam in 1:25)
6 x 100 @ 1:30 25 secs rest (supposed to be pull bouy, but I don’t have one)
Hopefully you were able to swim more than 3 laps in June? To go from that to 1:30 for multiple repeats would be an incredible feat of improvement.
I would keep doing what you are doing and strive to keep your form together. Concentrate on it for the whole swim.
It’s probably from muscle fatigue, we all get it, just keep working on it. Do your test and keep swimming the recommended interval times. It’s hard and it sucks sometimes. (well probably most of the time)
You have gotten a bunch of different responses. I have been on this board since this format started, Was on the old format and the old Gordo site…Fla Jill has been on here the whole time, after ten years of reading posts, when it comes to swimming, I would listen to her first,
Were you doing 4-5 swims per week at 600-800 yds each, or 4-5 swims per week, with your weekly swim yardage totaling 6000-8000?
Either way, I’d say definitely do more technique instead of fast swimming. Or, intersperse fast sets with technique. Here’s an example set that is about the same length, but with more drill
200 ez
8x50 drill
3x 100 on 1:50
3x 100 on 1:45 focus on maintaining good form
2x 50 drill
4x 100 on 1:45
2 x 100 on 1:40 do your best not to let form go to crap
2-4 x 50 drill
3x100 on 1:50
100 all out do your best not to let form go to crap
50 best possible technique
200-300 ez
One of the biggest issues in swimming is that in order to work on technique you have to be pretty comfortable in the water. This means swimming more. The problem is that there’s no sense practicing poor technique, so there are a couple options. 1. Swim a lot, get comfortable, then do technique. 2. Do nothing but technique, then do hard work. 3. Do a mixture. I prefer to take the third approach. The first approach can be a waste of time/ cause injury, the second can be too slow although the results tend to be good if you have the patience. This is the kind of thing you do at the beginning of the off-season, especially if you need to break through some sort of plateau. The third option seems to be the ideal adaptation in that in improvements in performance need to be accompanied by equal improvements or maintenance of good technique.
Personally, I find that I get more out of technique work when I mix it in with hard sets–it’s fine and dandy to be able to swim slow and have perfect technique, but sustained good technique is the reason some people are faster than others. Strength is important too, but improper application of force will get you nowhere in swimming. That said, it may help you to add one “no-pressure” swim a week where all you do is go in and work on what you or your coach find to be the deficiencies in your stroke. If you’re not good at self-analysis you will need to hire a coach if you don’t already have one.