A couple more pics on flicker http://www.flickr.com/photos/theroaddiaries/3480450347/in/photostream/
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It’s funny, you act as if he won World TT championships and ProTour level TTs on frames that are considered “aerodynamic wrecks” relative to the other riders or something…
It’s funny, you act as though there’s a major difference between frames so that Frank Schleck could beat him if only he had a Cervelo, - wait a minute…
but all things being equal, he’s going to be faster or slower than he would be otherwise depending on the given frame.
depends on if the frame is lighter, has different stiffness properties, behaves differently over bumps etc… taking one turn slightly differently is enough to skew the affects of a whole series of frames, that are essentially the same.
soooo if Cervelo’s seat post isnt legal… how is the front end of that going to be legal?? just a question.
It’s funny, you act as if he won World TT championships and ProTour level TTs on frames that are considered “aerodynamic wrecks” relative to the other riders or something…
It’s funny, you act as though there’s a major difference between frames so that Frank Schleck could beat him if only he had a Cervelo, - wait a minute…
Careful…resorting to exaggeration and straw men are certain signs that you’re losing an argument…
but all things being equal, he’s going to be faster or slower than he would be otherwise depending on the given frame.
depends on if the frame is lighter, has different stiffness properties, behaves differently over bumps etc… taking one turn slightly differently is enough to skew the affects of a whole series of frames, that are essentially the same.
I repeat, “You keep using that phrase…I do not think it means what you think it means”.
Besides, what part of “all things being equal” don’t you understand??
Sorry Tom,
Uh, I thought that we were talking about two different frames. I agree, all things being equal, - he’ll rock.
Here’s a phrase:
Holy Headtube, Batman.
Sorry Tom,
Uh, I thought that we were talking about two different frames. I agree, all things being equal, - he’ll rock.
No, I’m sorry, as I originally implied, but didn’t repeat in the last post, I meant all other things being equal besides the frame.
But, that’s OK…now I understand what part of it you can’t comprehend. Got it 
You could add the Scott Plasma 3 in there too.
Seriously, we are either seeing a confluence of different design philosophies, or all these companies are fishing ideas from the same DNA pool.
It’s silly.
You’re an aero guy who has done a lot of great work. So, - I’ll respect that and shut up. All of these TT bike frames are excellent in my book and are so close to each other where it counts that I find it very hard to believe that Pinarello’s $20,000 bike is “faster” or “slower” than Specialized, Cervelo, or whatever…
But I haven’t tested any like you have.
looks like a P2C Giant combo. I guess imitation is a true form of flattery.
I am happy to see the current Specialized piece of crap tt bike may be replaced sooner than later.
It’s silly.
You’re an aero guy who has done a lot of great work. So, - I’ll respect that and shut up. All of these TT bike frames are excellent in my book and are so close to each other where it counts that I find it very hard to believe that Pinarello’s $20,000 bike is “faster” or “slower” than Specialized, Cervelo, or whatever…
But I haven’t tested any like you have.
It’s funny you use the Pinarello as an example to compare to the other 2 brands…especially since the comparative cost/benefit ratio is actually negative!
But…it sure is “purdy”…
Cancellara is going to ride the same kick ass TTs on that bike that he would on a Cervelo or a Pinarello or a DeRosa…
If it would be possible for him to race against a clone of him (same age, same training, same position, same everything else but the bike) I would bet he could not beat him unless he was riding a more aerodynamic bike.
Now if Cancellara shows up significantly stronger in a particular race, I can imagine that he could bet him in a De Rosa or Pinarello.
A slight difference between bikes is a slight difference but sometimes enough to win or loose a TT.
Sergio
“all other things being equal” is a bit of a sticky one. as you alluded to over on a different forum, many of the euro tt courses are “technical”. so part of being equal is how well the bike handles. for example, my p3c rode so straight that you barely had to hang on. otoh, my new transition handles way better around corners. if the frames are aero equals, my bet is that i’ll be faster on a turny tt on the transition by being able to stay in the drops more or take corners at higher speeds. so while aero is obviously a huge factor, a bike’s handling ability also certainly comes into play (at least for those technical courses).
You can play chicken or egg…or you can realize the genius of leaving everything behind to create something that takes the best characteristics of everything! Thing positive, man!
One other interesting comparison with Cervelo: C made that p4 design and I still have not heard of any pros using it. Gotta love the way Specialized has this out immediately.
i guess this means that specialized’s very weak argument supporting the sloped top tube (it “channeling” the air or something) on the SBI transition was not 90% fairy tale, it was 100% fairly tale …
I think everyone owning a transition will be a bit upset. Will be interesting to see if Macka gets one…
The bikes rear end and tt remind me of the Time.
Glad you brought up The Time. I remember back in the day when they came out with “The Bird”. Man…that was a good song to dance to.
One other interesting comparison with Cervelo: C made that p4 design and I still have not heard of any pros using it. Gotta love the way Specialized has this out immediately.
Are you implying that Christiane Soeder doesn’t get paid to race bikes?
Here’s a better image: