Forum Name:
Coggan vs. Day
or
Day vs. Coggan
I’d like to be able to quickly see the squabble between these two.
Thanks
M.Shannon
PS- This thread should be moved into the new forum
Hye, I want one.
How about h2ofun vs tires?
Dave
Personally, if I were Frank, I’d take out a restraining order on Coggan.
*How about h2ofun vs tires? *
**
How about just the h2ofun forum? 
I’m trying to figure out how to get a restraining order on Frank’s lack of research to back up his claims.
Boy, that would be an honor.
(Sure a slow day. )
Dave
I’m trying to figure out how to get a restraining order on USAT Board Members from personally attacking people on Slowtwitch. Perhaps you can put this in your USAT Board Profile during the next election…
I’m trying to figure out how to get a restraining order on Frank’s lack of research to back up his claims.
Right. Because Heaven knows, every other claim made on behalf of triathlon equipment is backed up by research.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ! ! !
I’m not attacking Frank and more than Vitus just attaccked Coggan.
I’m just waiting for proof. What I said wasn’t personal at all, it was based on his product, not Frank the individual. I’m sure Frank is a nice enough guy, I have no idea, never met him. I don’t claim to know him at all, just that I have seen numerous claims made without science behind them.
But Coggan and Day don’t have anything to do with other products, do they? So why would someone bring up another tri-related product in this thread?
“I’m trying to figure out how to get a restraining order on USAT Board Members from personally attacking people on Slowtwitch”
I’d like a restraining order that protects me from people who personally attack people who are making comments about a third party product.
I’m glad you’re keeping brandonecpt straight about what a personal attack is by personally attacking him. That makes sense…
** So why would someone bring up another tri-related product in this thread?**
So I hijacked the thread, so what? Call Homeland Security and complain, punk.
No, my point was that a rather large contingent in here, led by the good AC, and including a certain USAT board member, have a bug up their ass about Frank, for some reason, and they make a lot of noise about Frank’s lack of supporting research, but I don’t so much see them crusading against any other triathlon products on the same grounds. And it seems to me that such opportunities abound, if what truly bothers them is marketing claims that aren’t supported by scientific research.
I would have more respect for AC’s position on this if he bothered to try PC’s for himself. It isn’t as if he’s never carried out an experiment with a test group of one before. As for the idea that this board member here just won’t let anyone sell tri products with claims not scientifically substantiated, that’s just laughable. (Sort of like the USAT itself, but one hijack is enough from me, right?)
Someday I’ll buy you a beer. This isn’t a personal attack:
IMO, “elected officials” should hold themselves to a higher level on public forums, based upon their merits in which they ran for office. If your resume included messages on ST non-related to region business, then please continue. If not, perhaps your region should be made aware.
I’m not trying to be an ass (or maybe I am), but what if all of the athletes in your region conducted themselves like you? (Especially if the debate can’t be won) My guess is that you would need UFC sanctioning and not USAT.
Ok, first let me say this: If Frank, or anyone else, is offended with the joke I said about the restraining order, I’m sorry. My bad.
“So I hijacked the thread, so what? Call Homeland Security and complain, punk. ;)”
I might have to! Or atleast the CPD… 
“have a bug up their ass about Frank, for some reason, and they make a lot of noise about Frank’s lack of supporting research, but I don’t so much see them crusading against any other triathlon products on the same grounds.”
The reason I don’t talk about other products and their lack of proof? I don’t have it fed to me all day long on ST. Do I think everyone has the proper research behind their claims? No. Heck, for some reason many manufacturers can’t even weight their products correctly, and how hard is that?! BUT, I’m sure I’d love to discuss their claims if they started posting on ST as well.
And let’s be honest, I don’t make any more noise about Frank’s lack of supporting research than he makes of his product.
“And it seems to me that such opportunities abound, if what truly bothers them is marketing claims that aren’t supported by scientific research.”
Agreed, opportunites are all over the place. But Emilio DeSoto doesn’t come on ST and post a 40% increase in swim speed without something to back it up, that I know of. He does fill us in on what he thinkgs is a good product. I feel that’s a great way to market.
“I would have more respect for AC’s position on this if he bothered to try PC’s for himself”
I’ve had this conversation with many people before. You don’t have to try something to be able to evaluate it, do you? Do you have to jump off a building to know it’s going to either hurt or kill you? (assuming the building more than a story tall). Do you have to stop drinking water to know you’ll get dehydrated? I’ve never not drank water or jumped off a tall building, but I can evaluate the outcome of both.
“It isn’t as if he’s never carried out an experiment with a test group of one before”
True, he did a test of one with his wife in the wind tunnel. But that doesn’t mean he has to actually pedal PC’s to evaluate them.
“As for the idea that this board member here just won’t let anyone sell tri products with claims not scientifically substantiated, that’s just laughable”
People sell products all the time without their claims being substantiated, I just don’t get to talk with them about their results, lack of, consistency of, or testing techniques.
Again to go back to Emilio as an example: If he came on ST making huge claims about a new wonder product, I would certainly want to know where his claims come from and the study behind them. Would I razz him as wel if I didn’t feel his information was complete? Yeah. But I’m sure it’d all be in good fun.
Something tells me Frank isn’t worried about my opinion on PC’s at the end of the day. If he is, I’m sorry. But, what I think about them shouldn’t, and doesn’t (I hope) influence anyone elses opinion on them.
“If your resume included messages on ST non-related to region business, then please continue. If not, perhaps your region should be made aware”
I think I missed that point. What about my post had to do with region business?
“I’m not trying to be an ass (or maybe I am), but what if all of the athletes in your region conducted themselves like you? (Especially if the debate can’t be won) My guess is that you would need UFC sanctioning and not USAT”
I don’t think you sound like an ass, but what if athlets in my region conducted themselves like me? Well, I’d see this:
- they’d all be volunteering their time trying to help out USAT
- they’d be racing and upholding the USAT rules
- they’d be helping the sport as best they could by brining newbies in to try it out
- they’d volunteer at races
- they’d offer carpooling to events
I guess I’m not sure why me seeking proof of a claim has anything at all to do with me volunteering on the USAT board.
Anyway, if you guys are really upset about the joke, would you be happy if I deleted it? I think this reinforces why I spent time just reading on ST rather than posting.
What about my post had to do with region business?
None. That’s my point.
**The reason I don’t talk about other products and their lack of proof? I don’t have it fed to me all day long on ST. **
Oh, puh-lease. I suppose you’ve not read anything by Demerly since joining Slowtwitch. To take just one example of many. Or heck, let’s make it two examples: How many posts has Gerard made in here about his bikes? How many times has he posted windtunnel data? And where is the scientific data regarding Q-rings, or rotor cranks, etc and so on?
** You don’t have to try something to be able to evaluate it, do you?**
Actually, you do. If your position is that there isn’t any research to support a claim- because there’s no scientific research about it at all, really- if you want to evaluate that claim scientifically, you have to test it yourself.
**True, he did a test of one with his wife in the wind tunnel. But that doesn’t mean he has to actually pedal PC’s to evaluate them. **
That’s not the only time AC’s N=1, either. And if he doesn’t have to actually pedal PC’s to evaluate them, he has to at least evaluate those who do pedal them scientifically, and he hasn’t. As he is fond of saying, the best predictor of performance is performance. Or something like that. If he hasn’t bothered checking to see if performance is affected, why should I trust his evaluation? Because he’s a scientist? Don’t make me laugh. He’s a good scientist, but he hasn’t bothered to apply science to the issue. He has less expertise on this specific question than any boob who’s actually ridden PCs.
"What about my post had to do with region business?
None. That’s my point."
So all of my posts now have to revolve around my region’s dealings?
This thread is so getting yank…
The don’t really squabble with each other, they just like the sound of their own voices way too much 
.