I am planning on switching from my PT to a crank based powermeter. I can get a new Cinqo Saturn/Garmin Edge 705 or an excellent condition used wireless DuraAce SRM for approximately the same price. Which power meter would you choose and why?
I like the idea of the Cinqo/Garmin combo, however, I am a little concerned about some of the issues that I have read about - long time for the Garmin to link to the Cinqo; low wattage readings; wide power fluctuations. Perhaps these issues have been resolved with recent Garmin updates. Can the Cinqo/Garmin combo be used without satellite linkage, or does the Garmin only turn on after finding a satellite? Can the Garmin display wattage averaged over preset time intervals (i.e. 2 to 5 seconds)? Is the optional Garmin speed/cadence attachment required to display speed/cadence, or is this information provided by the Cinqo?
I have a DA wireless SRM with a PC VI. I also have the Garmin 705. I have never used the 705 on my own bike do to all the issues one of the training partners had. She had a DA SRM mated to a 705. No matter where we put the 705, we had drop signal issues. Finally, we thought she had a defective 705, so, we set up both hers and mine on her bike. Had issues with both.
We put her on a CT and setup my PC VI on her bars, her 705 on her bars and my 705 on a bench next to her crank. The PC VI ran flawlessly and was consistent with the CT. Her 705 on the bars dropped a couple times. My 705 next to the cranks never dropped the signal, but, gave some skitchy readings. The 705 was such a pain in the ass that she finally got a PC VI.
No experience with the Cinqo, but, I can tell you the 705 has some issues with the SRM.
I’ve been using a Cinqo/705 combo for a week or so now and am very pleased.
-Pairing the two units is quite easy and reliable.
-Without a satellite signal, the 705 will read the speed/cadence sensor and the Cinqo. I don’t use the speed/cadence sensor anymore since the Cinqo transmits cadence as well and if I lose the GPS signal it’s not really important to me–If I have power, cadence, and HR I have what I need.
-The Garmin will display a bunch of power fields, but the averages IIRC are only for the whole ride or an individual lap, i.e. you can choose from ride average, lap average, or last lap average.
With the PT, power fluctuates widely if the sampling time for display is set to 1 sec. Setting the sampling time to longer intervals such as 3 sec reduces the fluctuations as the display wattage reflects the average wattage over 3 sec intervals. Does the Garmin have a similar setup mode? Have you compared the wattage displayed by the Cinqo/705 combo to the wattage displayed by other means such as a Computrainer? I have found the PT wattage to be very similar to what I get from the Computrainer.
The Cinqo measures torque at the crank, like the SRM, correct?
If so, I would imagine that the power readings would be a few % higher on the Cinqo than a PT or Computrainer, as those are measured at the hub/wheel and power is lost in transfer from crank–>wheel
With the PT, power fluctuates widely if the sampling time for display is set to 1 sec. Setting the sampling time to longer intervals such as 3 sec reduces the fluctuations as the display wattage reflects the average wattage over 3 sec intervals. Does the Garmin have a similar setup mode? Have you compared the wattage displayed by the Cinqo/705 combo to the wattage displayed by other means such as a Computrainer? I have found the PT wattage to be very similar to what I get from the Computrainer.
The CinQo transmits to the Garmin averages over complete pedal revolutions, unlike the PT which is on a fixed time basis sampling. This means that the display is inherently going to be less “jumpy” than a PT set at a low display averaging period since you won’t have the PT problem of partial power strokes put into the power reported.
I’ve run a CinQo/Garmin in tandem with a PT wheel many times. Although there is no option to change the display “smoothing” on the Garmin, my impression in running the units side-by-side is that the Garmin display of the power data is nearly identical to what you get out of PT set at 3s or 5s smoothing.
I’ve done static calibrations on the CinQo vs. the PT and in every case the are both with a % or 2 of each other…well within the claimed accuracies.
I don’t use the Garmin speed/cadence sensor. Cadence is supplied by the CinQo and the GPS takes care of the speed. It’s nice not having to worry about speed sensors and wheel magnets
BTW, the CinQo/Garmin setup is “ready to go” very quickly after turning on the 705.
As you your original question? I’d go for the new CinQo/Garmin setup over the used wireless SRM…if anything, just to avoid future shipments to the factory for battery replacements (the CinQo uses an easily replaceable “watch” style battery). Oh yeah, I’ve found the CinQo to be VERY stable over temperature changes (variations accounting for less than 1/2W in reported power)…which may not be something one can say about typical SRM performance. Lastly, if you suspect the zero might be off, all it takes is pedaling backwards for 4 revs and the thing is zeroed.
Tom, thanks for the detailed response. User changeable batteries is a BIG plus as is the easy auto zeroing.
I assume that you can begin your ride while waiting for the Garmin to sync to the Cinqo. Have you had any issues with dropouts? This seems to be one of the problems that has been reported with the SRM/Garmin combo. If I get the Garmin, I will put the speed/cadence sensor on my road bike so that I can use the 705 as a wireless bike computer on the road bike, and as the head unit for the Cinqo on my Tri bike.
Tom, thanks for the detailed response. User changeable batteries is a BIG plus as is the easy auto zeroing.
I assume that you can begin your ride while waiting for the Garmin to sync to the Cinqo.
That’s the thing, there’s no wait. Here’s what I do: I turn on the Garmin and it takes about 20-30s for it to find the satellites. During that process, if I rotate the cranks backwards at least 4 times it does 3 things. First, it “wakes up” the CinQo. Second, it zeros out the offset, and third the Garmin will beep and display “Power meter detected”. Boom…I push the start/stop button on the Garmin and start riding. There’s no wait for synching.
Have you had any issues with dropouts? This seems to be one of the problems that has been reported with the SRM/Garmin combo.
Earlier version of the Garmin firmware had periodic “data drops”. It wasn’t that the wireless connection was dropped though, it was that the Garmin got “too busy” and just didn’t record a data point or too. That’s been basically eliminated. In my months of using the Garmin/CinQo combo I can’t recall a single incident where they’ve “lost connection”.
If I get the Garmin, I will put the speed/cadence sensor on my road bike so that I can use the 705 as a wireless bike computer on the road bike, and as the head unit for the Cinqo on my Tri bike.
Rather than getting the speed/cadence sensor, I’d suggest getting a CinQo with the SRAM S900 crankset and then a 2nd BB. Swapping the cranks from bike to bike is literally a 1 bolt, 2 minute max operation. That way you get to enjoy power on both bikes! Works for me
I just wanted to 2nd Tom’s experience with the CinQo powermeter. Mine was installed on a Sram S900 crank to use on my Cannondale. I had an initial problem with dropped recordings with my Garmin 705 but as soon as I updated the software that went away. As he said start the Garmin to pick up the satellites, spin the crank backwards 4-5 times to zero and wake up the CinQo, press start on the Garmin timer and ride.
The power data recorded along with the 705 GPS data really allows you to analyze your ride and compare your performance on a particular hill or section from one ride to the next.
I should add that Quarq, CinQo’s manufacturer has great customer support. They answered all my questions and concerns about the new kid on the block. They also support their dealers well. While my LBS was installing mine they were immediately available for a question he had about the magnet location. I am extremely happy with the company and CinQo.
