yep
The tri community literally has someone on the inside of the NCAA tri movement giving you the most accurate information and details, and your trying to constantly inject opinionated disagreements? That makes absolutely no sense, but far out it is so ST. I get texts every time there is an update from random people who lurk the thread but don’t comment “thanks for the updates”. I’m not trying to inject anything but the most accurate information and where we are with the process. And then how that process works. For some reason you keep interjecting your opionion, which is all good to do, but your lack of experience in this actual subject matter then needs to be understood. That’s why I’m kinda like are you just trolling sometimes with your comments?
I’m out. It’s the stupid shit like wtf are we arguing? There should be nothing to argue here man FFS.
@h2ofun that article is 15 months old. Most of the problem with all of this, is that all this data and process is all “behind the scenes”. Some of the data presented in this thread has been on the not most accurate data, which has been where I’ve wanted to correct it. If it makes it, it makes it. If it fails, it fails. I’ve never said it would make it, I’ve said if it makes the 40 school threshold and ncaa approves the data, then it will make it. We are currently in the vetting process and that outcome hopefully will be announced sooner rather than later (how long that process can take may vary, there is no specific timeline they must follow). And again no sport has ever been denied by the NCAA if said sport followed and made the marks set by the NCAA to gain championship status The “in it’s best interest” is to follow it’s own rules and guidelines so that it doesn’t get sued out of existence. So it’s in the NCAA’s best interest to allow a sport to gain championship status if it followed the rules/parameters set for by you guessed it…the NCAA. Tim Yount or Brooks Doughtie aren’t setting the standads, the NCAA is, and we are following their rules and guidelines. If they want tri to be the 1st sport to ever be denied if the ncaa accepts it’s 40 schools as being compliant of it’s own standard, yet still reject it, so be it. That imo would not be in the “best interest of the NCAA” if that’s the logic you need to accept it’ll be accepted Lurker.
What happened?
Based on this puff piece from 2022, the milestone was already met. Lots of folks on the thread with significant conflicts of interest.
“There are no words that do justice to reaching this milestone — incredible, monumental are a few that come immediately to mind,” said Tim Yount, USA Triathlon Chief Sport Development Officer. “This collective achievement is not only important for the sport of triathlon and multisport community as it comes on the 50th anniversary of Title IX and sends an unquestionable message that women’s sports are thriving and are here to stay.”
Nothing happened, that was just 1 step closer in the process.
Again you guys are now arguing the same shit you argued at the top of the page.
To get an ncaa sport in the ncaa system:
-40 schools must sign off that it’s a good idea that ncaa tri be accepted; these schools don’t even have to take it on, they just the athletic admin to agree that it’s a sport worthy of ncaa status. In 2013 that was achieved. 1st check in the process
2nd step: To go from emerging sport to championship sport status you must have 40 schools meet sport sponsorship status:
For ncaa tri that includes:
-1 event within triathlon, aquathlon, aquabike or duathlon against 1 other ncaa member institution where both teams have 3 finishers.
That needs to be done 4 times in the calendar year to meet ncaa sport sponsorship guidelines.
So that 2022 press release from USAT was just basically “great we finally have 40 schools, now we can actually move forward if every school meets ncaa sponsorship requirements”. You can’t meet 40 if you only have 33 schools or 27, etc. You have to have 40 (the more you get obviously gives you a bigger buffer if schools dont meet it; you probaly want ~50+ honestly to feel safest, in this climate to get near 100% compliance isn’t really achieved all that often in any sport). So you can kinda understand when the biggest investor in ncaa tri promotes that they now got 40 schools to take on ncaa tri. That’s living in the “real world”.
The current data that was sent to the NCAA at the end of the 2024-2025 academic calendar has 40 schools meeting that sport sponsorship guidelines. When that occurs, the data then goes to the NCAA vetting committee up for review. What they are primarily looking for is “countable events”. NCAA tri is 4
They look at a lot of data, but the countable events is the #1 reason your sport will or won’t move forward. They look at roster sizes, they look at graduation rates, they look at whether your sport is increasing or decreasing in numbers. But the primary driver in moving from emerging sport to championship status is- did you get 40 schools to meet sports sponsorship. As I noted, no sport has ever achieved that in the NCAA parameters and then got denied. They normally give a 2 year window that it’ll be an official championship sport in 2 years, which means during all of that time, your sport still must maintain 40 schools that *meet ncaa sports sponsorship guidelines, or it automatically falls back into emerging sport status…
NCAA institutions are fined by the NCAA if they have sports on their campuses that don’t meet ncaa sponsorship. It’s a percentage of your sports, so it’s not 100% complance, it’s a percentage of your total athletic sports on your campus. By default your job is to be sport compliant, that’s pretty much a requirement/given when athletic dept hires coaches.
So we are currently in the review phase of this. They can review the data and not like the countable events, that’s pretty much going to be the make or break data point. NCAA countable events is basically the entire premise of ncaa college athletics.
I get that you’re Canadian, but you really have no idea what the NCAA does. At it’s base, it is a competition organizer and not much else. It will exist forever, it just may focus its compliance efforts to academics only. USport will implode many years before the NCAA.
Making club programs out of NCAA programs is also ignorant since most of these schools still retain their club programs.
Please help me with your logic.
- The NCAA ALWAYS grants championships status when an emerging sport hits 40 teams.
- USAT (Tim Yount) claimed it reached 40 teams in 2022. That claim has been made several times since.
- It’s 2025. Women’s triathlon has not been granted NCAA championship sports status.
As of the October 2024 NCAA update the count was 38 with a forecast of 40. Several were in precarious situations and a couple won’t return.
USAT is not known for providing accurate data. They still claim 500,000 “members” and 4300 races. Per their numbers, last year there 120K annual members, 160K one day license holders and 40K kids and 1000 races (800 adult & 200 youth).
Time will tell but there seems to be a lot of smoke.
#usatmath
Brooks, where did your post go? I was reading and it went away.,
Why do you keep trying to say I hate USAT? Show me where I have ever said that!!
Do I ask tough questions since I question their integrity, yep. I believe in USAT, I just want to see it again run by folks with integrity, willing to think outside the box, etc.
Why is data old? Just showing things USAT made statements on. You get your paycheck from keeping this alive, I do not.
I do love the debate we are having. I do not know the answers, but you get me to think.
SO few folks have the ability to debate which is why I ask, why do you lower down into attacking me? I am just asking questions and giving the data that is public.
I hope you are right but I just see no way putting in a sport that is SO small, makes no money, makes sense any longer for the NCAA. But again, I maybe all wet. But so far, having 10 years to prove it works and only having at best 40 schools and 300 athletes shows how little interest there seems to be
Where did your post go?
Dave, I think your misunderstanding the technical differences in a campus that has the sport on campus, and a campus that has a sport that meets sports sponsorship. Teams don’t automatically meet sponsorship simply by supporting a team on their campus. They have to meet whatever sport specific requirements, so there is a difference in a situation where ncaa tri has 40 schools that sponsor tri on their campus and 40 schools that have met ncaa specific sport guidelines. End of the spring calendar 2025 was the 1st time NCAA tri has the data that they think meets the ncaa 40 school sponsorship guideline. It certainly was not in 2022 or 2023 or 2024 as I don’t even think 32 schools met that even though there were 40ish schools sponsoring it. My 1st year at Guilford in 2023 we did not meet sports sponsorship, they did in 2024 (1st time they did).
So once that was met, you then move forward with your actual data and profile to be reviewed before the ncaa vetting committee. This only occurred this year, not anytime before. The data can still come back with flaws if they find any countable event errors. There is a difference in countable events and countable days, and each division within NCAA has different requirements for that. What 1 division can count isn’t always allowed in other divisions. Needless to say “it’s complicated”.
And as I stated when you only have 40-44 schools, it’s almost impossible to think your going to get 100% rate, there are plenty of schools throughout the country in different sports that don’t meet their specific sport sponsorship guidelines for either low roster numbers or not meeting min. required countable events. Most schools that don’t meet sport sponsorship it’s almost always because of roster number issues. That’s why for most ncaa non-rev sports, roster management is the #1 reason why you lose your job, even more so than “winning and losing” on average. (obviously power schools have more pressure to win than D3 schools, etc).
NCAA
Pre-House Settlement we were on track for 42 Schools sponsoring the sport for 2025-2026 AY. That obviously has fallen slightly. But you still have more schools committing to running triathlon programs. So it’s about as close as you can get to Championship status, it requires the NCAA to vote. BTW, 40 participating schools does not guarantee championship status. The vote does. That’s why Men’s gymnastics remains a Championship sport even though there are only 15 schools across all three divisions that sponsor teams.
Thank you, from the article:
Acrobatics and tumbling saw 43 schools sponsor it at the varsity level in 2023-24, but not enough schools met the sport’s minimum competition and participant requirements to receive a recommendation at the committee’s fall meeting. Of note, 48 schools reported that they plan to sponsor the sport in 2024-25.
So all USAT did in 2022 was get 40 schools to sponsor the sport, that doesn’t mean they all met sport sponsorship requirements. That was the reason for the press release (and states as such, it doesn’t say anything about meeting championship status).
Triathlon had the data that was supported from the ncaa triathlon executive committee to move forward with it to the NCAA vetting process. Once that is finalized, it either gets rejected for bad data or goes before a “vote”. As I noted, I don’t think a sport has ever made it through the vetting process and then been voted no.
You actually don’t need 40 schools either though. (There are other ways to get the vote triggered as its all political) The point is Dave is no fun and doesn’t need to be negative when this actually incredible progress for the sport.
Yes true but that’s sorta the easiest parameter to move it forward. 40 schools sponsoring it automatically triggers the review process. The ncaa tri committee had both data selected for the “made it to 40” and “not made it to 40 but here is the data” (where graduation rates, roster sizes, roster growth then is valued more than the “40” magical number). The 40 schools plateua essentially is the easiest/safest likely gurantee (if they vetted data is agreed upon that you met 40 sport sponsored schools). Again I’ve never said it’s a gurantee, I’ve said I don’t know of a single ncaa sport that was rejected after the data supported/showed you made 40 schools. There have been what 91 different sports been accepted. So it’s not as if they only want a certain type of sport, if the data supports that their schools support it, it’s almost assured going to get voted yes.
Men’s gymnastics of course was basically grandfathered in nearly 100 years ago, they obviously didn’t have the same process that newer sports are “required” to go through with ncaa process.
Brooks, it seems like you are possibly operating under the illusion that every codified standard and piece of law must be agreed upon and lawyers and judges of sound mind can’t possibly come to disagreements.
The reason for those disagreements is often an inherent bias of whatever they prefer and then they grasp at straws (or bylaws) to justify their decisions.
I have no skin in this particular game other than I love triathlon, want it to succeed, and don’t like seeing sizable amount of resources wasted, and especially am angered that we are excluding young men -the biggest fans and proponents of triathlon- for social-political reasons.
I realize men are virtually a non starter for new college sports, which is why someone at USAT ought to have torpedoed this idea from the beginning. (If there were an huge group of young women racing triathlon, eager to race at a high collegiate level, that would be different)
Lurker I will only say this. Men are getting more opportunities TODAY than they ever have in college setting for triathlon since the sport has been around. And this is all because of NCAA women’s only movement. If your only viewpoint is NCAA, your missing what is actually happening and what opportunities are being given to the men. Which hey I can understand most lay person only sees NCAA as college athletics pathway only and then they won’t recognize other avenues to college athletics. But there are more scholarship opportunitites for men in college triathlon NOW more than ever. And I think in the new realm of college athletics, these opportunities are only going to increase to be part of well funded, full time coached programs. One must open their eyes to all opportunities if one wants to make it happen, though. You can’t be stuck on 1 single pathway or you may miss it.
Your a HS track coach I believe you said, I hope you don’t only talk NCAA recruiting to your athletes. There is NAIA, juco, ncaa, all forms of opportunities for athletes, not just NCAA pathway. So if you don’t get in with one pathway, guess what try another avenue. That’s now what we are seeing in men’s collegiate triathlon. It’s just you may not see it, if you don’t open your eyes up to any and all avenues.
And that’s kinda like sometimes I’m like you guys picture of what is or isn’t happening isn’t as accurate as you guys are suggesting, so I’m trying to be more of the “this is the real picture”. Why Dave continues to argue over a 2022 PR when the reality is we are 3 years removed from that and so close to opening the door of championship status. It’s litterally being reviewed by the NCAA PTB’s as we speak. So all the old drama or fake news that USAT was putting out is just that…old news. Let it go, it’s now much closer to making it. But it also means it’s as close to not making it as well since we by default haven’t made. 2 schools drop or don’t make sport sponsorhip this fall and it’s likely 100% over. So I don’t want to hear about conflict of interests or none of that stupid bullshit. This is where we are. If you or others don’t want to accept that, that’s on yall. But dont’ add stupid drama over it just to argue your case.
At the end the best predictor of future performance, is past performance.
You can speculate but if 40 has been always the number that is your best predictor…
IE the most evidence based.