My Vineman

Triathlon Forum
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Finally got home after traveling for 20hours yesterday. Had a great time in California and was in awe at the beauty and landscape, it was nice to se so much lush green after being on a hurricane damaged island where there are no trees left and not much green to look at.

The Friday night was a fun experience and thoroughly enjoyable. Registration and the expo were easy and smooth so no stress there. We managed to get out and drive the course, drop off run gear etc all on the Saturday- prior to going to te 4:30 race briefing- which was a little too negatively done IMO with the USAT ref harping on about penalties etc… I know it needs to be done, but it seemed to be all about that and not about the course etc…

Swim: I was in the 6:38 wave, but given how cold it was would have swapped for the final wave in a heartbeat. Decided not to put the watch on for the swim- which was a mistake. Swim was uneventful and slower than normal by 3 mins? 37:40

Long first transition- had to put on arm warmers and get wrapped up :slight_smile:

Bike- Great bike course- we have NO hills here, so it was nice to ride a rolling course and play on the descents some. Held back on the bike between miles 25-40, which I didn’t need to do in hindsight, but still had a comfortable ride in 2:44 and change.

T2 was slow again- had to unwrap myself, and as the sun was finally breaking through, was looking fwd to the run.

Run- set off well and managed to hold the pace under 8min/mile for the first 6 miles, but then the legs started to complain. I wasn’t surprised at the legs’ complaints- my run training has not been what it shoud be and I was expecting a tough final 4 or 5 miles, which is what I got. Managed to keep moving forward and was very happy to see the finish line- I got what I deserved in terms of my training on the run, so no complaints from me there.

Overall- 5:26 and change- which is considerably slower than previous HalfIM times- but still a good reflection of training. Fantastic bike course, both scenic and technically interesting. The run course leave a bit to be desired, but in a trade off with the bike you can take it. This is a faster course than it looks, but if you race it intelligently it can yield good times.

I would like to see mile markers on the run and 10mile markers on the bike- makes pacing a lot easier. Aid stations were brilliant- and the volunteers were among the best I have ever seen at a race. T1 has me perplexed as to why I have to run considerably further than almost everyone else to get my bike and go out… hence the longer T1 and IMO a poorly thought out transition area.

Did see a few STers- and a TSR guy on the run-did shout out, but if he felt half as bad as I did at that point I am not surprised he didn’t wave back… great job Dave,and nice to meet you out there- good luck with next year’s race, I will be at IMLP but will be sending a few folks your way to race…

Weeman

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Vineman T1 is set up so that early swim waves are at the back (and hence have the longest run) while later swim waves are closer to the exit. This is done to facilitate wetsuit bag loading and to keep traffic patterns under control (just like an airplane where the rear seats are filled before the front seats). Vineman does a good job of mixing up start times for everyone, it’s pretty much a given that next year we’ll all be starting at a completely different time than this year which means racking your bike in a different spot. You might have thought that you wanted to trade for a later start while on the bike, but I’m sure if you ask anyone who started the run 1 hour after you they’d say that the earlier start is more desireable. You also have less bikes to deal with in the 6:38 wave so that is another plus. If this was your first year racing, then you probably don’t even realize how much of a difference the full carpet strips made in keeping feet clean and making the run out less painful.

Basically, T1 has evolved over the past few years and is about as good as it can be until that area gets paved or sodded.

As far as the run course not being scenic, I guess I disagree, what other run course do you get to do a loop through an actual vinyard? I guess it’s a bit quiet in most spots compared to running through Windsor or something, but I even get crabby about the 3-4 cars I had to dodge out there, I couldn’t imagine trying to deal with more traffic just to get a few extra people cheering. Two years ago the run course was set up for a bit more spectators along the first/last mile, but I really think the changes made last year to allow for the vinyard loop are great. For me, personally, the vineman run course ranks up there as one of my favorites, while I curse the bike course for constantly making me work. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Mile markers used to be on the run (think Dave said something about them having to be on the other side of the road or something, not sure I understood that) but I suspect they will likely be back next year. Mile markers for the bike have been painted on the road in years past as well, I think I saw a few this year when I wasn’t crying about how lousy my bike split was going :stuck_out_tongue: I think in years past there may have been bike mileage markers even, but I don’t remember seeing any in the last 2 or 3 years. So, anyway, that is a valid point, it’d be pretty easy to throw up 5 mile markers along the bike course along with the cones as the bike course really hasn’t changed substantially in a few years.

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The transition just had me wondering why there isn’t an entrance at one end and the out at the other, like Disney- so everyone covers the same distance… makes T1 times a bit longer for some folks. But I understand it is way better than before. I know the OA placing is not important, but if I had been 2mins less in T1 it could have moved me up 30 places.

The run- after such an amazing bike- probably one the most beautiful I have ever raced- it seemed to not equate. The vineyard was cool though. As for leaving in a later wave- after training here it never felt hot out there while running or after the race, I would prefer a later start and runnig in the heat- but I know I am in the vast minority there.

I think I remember seeing markers on the bike course and some on the run course that were reasonably accurate- I just like those signs on the side of the road for mental tick off.

Definitely a race I will go back to- knowledge is power in these things and with that there is more time to be made

Weeman

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First thing I said to Dave post race was, “where were the mile markers on the run?” He did tell me in my post race haze that it had something to do with only being able to put them on one side of the road and this would cause people to run on that side which they didn’t want. He did tell me the aid stations were placed at specific miles which I figured out as I was asking the aid stations what mile they were and they were very helpful in telling me so! The volunteers were so awesome by the way! :smiley: I got to the Vineyard and the nice man told me I was at mile 6, I said, “thank god” and he started laughing at me! :slight_smile:

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What about the mile markers on the bike? I swear I passed mile 25 three different times. I understand that some may be there from previous years, but couldn’t they be painted over or something? Next year maybe they could put chalk markers in the road the day before - heck, maybe I’ll just do that for my own sanity.

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There are white mile marker numbers on the bike course and purple ones for VM and Barb’s Race. The old ones are pretty faded.

Just come up and ride with me throughout the year and your bike will be able to do the course itself. :wink:

clm, stuck in LA

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LOL! Yeah I noticed that too! Thankfully my computer was working, so I was able to figure out which road marker was the correct one! :smiley: We should have consulted with clm before the race, she could have filled us in! :slight_smile:

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Weeman, I would loved to have traded swim starts with you. I was in the last wave, over 2 hours later. That sun being straight up was a killer!! I, and others I talked with got sun stroke into the run. Some food ran out, cups ran out, etc. You were lucky to start when you did!

What were folks mileage on the bike? My computer said like 54 something. I saw one mileage marker on the rode that said 25 miles, while my computer at the time said 23 something.

I thought the transistion area was perfect. In your wave, everyone had the exact same distance to cover! My bike was the last bike at the end of the last rack. Was the first bike in T2 at the end with my flower. Hope that does not happen again!! :o)

Dave

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My GPS said the ride was 55 and change, and the run was 13.54.

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I had like 54.6 on the bike. I was at the short end.

The run was long!!! And I was so so close to my goal time. Well, that extra distance got me. Oh well.

I have to admit that is one of the things that gets me a little upset with all the races I do. It seems that every race has either the swim, bike or run messed up. Since I do mainly OLY and HIM’s, these are specific distances.

Makes it very hard to see if I am improving when a race is stated to be a certain spec, and then finding out they are not. With GPS, there should be no reason the distances are not right on.

Oh well, the engineer in me.

Dave

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Uh, based on time, the run course was spot on.

You’d take someone’s posted GPS measurements while racing over the certified course? WTF? I can tell you that speaking based on my time, that run was 13.1. It compares perfectly to other paved half IM run courses, not fast, not slow. It was most definitely NOT 13.5 miles if you ran the course that was marked as I did. 13.5 would have taken me 2-3 min more.

As far as running through T1, no it is not the same distance for everyone (later waves go from the entrance at the middle direct to their rack so have less running) but it is just mean to want everyone to cover more distance so that the early waves (who already have the advantage in terms of weather) can move up a few spots in the overall rankings. I’m a fan of KISS, and the transition area is done up as best as it can be given what the ED’s have to work with.

Yes there is a lot of mile marker paint on the roads, for all the various races. And, even mile marker signs can be off when well-intentioned volunteers get confused by all the paint, this happens at running races all the time. It’s pretty obvious that if you care about mileage, you should ride with a cyclometer. I myself prefer not to, it only makes me slower.

Lets try to keep this thread from becoming too whiney…

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I was suprised to find that there were ‘age group’ sign on only one side of the racks in T1. I racked my bike in the second ‘35-36’ group, did my swim, ran into T1 only to find no markers on the side I was on! Rookie mistake, I’m sure. Luckily, I’m a slow swimmer and ride a bright yellow bike, so I only had to run in hopeless circles for a few minutes before I spotted my spot.

Also - did a rider get hit by a car near the high school? As I was coming through on of the intersections, I saw a rider down with several folks around him. He was right in the middle of the intersection. I don’t know if he got hit, crashed, or just picked a really bad spot to bonk.

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Since you killed the run course, I am sure not saying you are wrong.

Again, I know folks do the best they can. But, I know on the race I was teh RD on, I worked real real hard to make sure the distances were exactly what we said they were. I used 3 GPS’s, and my topo map s/w for my computrainer, and one car. The car had the most variability.

Oh well, still trying to recover from the race. Today is the first day my legs have not killed me. Still feel weak. Just sent my race entry in for the TBF Oly race on Sunday. Will see what I have since I have yet to be able train. Am hoping to get a swim in tonight.

Great run again!! Are skirts going to be required equipment for next year to go fast?

Dave

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You’re supposed to run to your rack on the river-side of the TA, then run out on the street-side. I don’t know if this was covered in the meeting or the literature, but that was the RD’s intention. It’s dangerous to have 2-way traffic especially with bikes on narrow strips of carpet, so this traffic flow has a point to it. Some additional signs/volunteers pointing may have helped at the swim exit, or perhaps some yellow tape to prevent swimmers from running straight to the street side of the TA instead of making a sharp turn and heading toward their rack.

Then again, some transition areas don’t have any designated spots and people still manage to “remember” where they were racked.

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If I were Russ, I’d make a skirt required for anyone to qualify for a Kona slot. That would sure make for an amusing run course.

I’ve done the half VM run course for 7 years now. It’s accurate and consistent each and every year. I am sure whoever is in charge of it has measured it out, though this year it was the same as last year’s. I ran 30 seconds slower at Vineman than I did at Ralphs this year. I am very confident that the run course is no more than 1% off, probably less than .5% off, but .25% is probably the difference between running the tangents or taking the turns wide.

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Uh, based on the GPS data from seven different people posted on Motionbased, the run course was long and the bike course was short.

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I’m not sure why there seems to be so many issues with making courses accurate in this sport…
Even measured on a bike, a marathon or half marathon wouldn’t be that much off provided the bike comp. is calibrated before riding the course.
I’d most 100yds or so…

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“Did see a few STers- and a TSR guy on the run-did shout out, but if he felt half as bad as I did at that point I am not surprised he didn’t wave back…”

It took me a second to figure out you were talking to me. I did yell back, or at least I tried to make some sort of sound. I was in my own little world at that point of the race.

Dave

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Maybe Dave will have to ask La Crema (owned by Jess Jackson of Kendall-Jackson) to yank out a row of those Pinot Noir vines so we can get this run shortened a hair. All these darn vinyards are ruining our running trails!

Not sure I really understand someone else’s comment about comparing times from different HIM races though. Seems like every course and conditions are different enough to make it an apples to oranges comparison.

Hopefully Dave can convince town of Windsor to move T2/finish to Town Square. He could then move run to go Windsor-River Road to Eastside and head out to the new Riverfront County Park for a nice trail run around the ponds. Check it out Dave…it would be sweet and way more scenic than current run (of course you would lose the La Creme connection).

Mike

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Call me sick, but I love the current run and all the little rollers!! Now I just wish the bike course was smoother with a few more hills! :smiley: