Wel, was out on the new P3 today - full Record 10 (brand new), Zipp 404 (909 front really), and Carbon X - I so far like the ride, feel and everything about my Softride Rocket TT7 better. I have another 100 miles in the am…I will follow up with more then…after a bit more fit issues are worked out.
This points out the reason why we don’t do test rides to buy bikes.
Now, given, I would agree that on ride quality alone (the degree to which you feel bumps) a Softirde is always going to ride better than anything. But the ride quality is only one aspect of a bike’s total performance envelope.
I know that when I first get a new bike set up and ride it, it is very, very rare for me to like it. I do usually actually dislike it. 600 miles later I have some kind of opinion- good, bad or indifferent, that is pretty reliable.
Picking a bike from a testing ride is like picking a wife from one night in the sack. It doesn’t work.
“was out on the new P3 today … I so far like the ride, feel and everything about my Softride Rocket TT7 better”
Why did you replace the Softride with a P3? Especially just after the claimed aero results.
great analogy…so true.
Replace? No, just got a P3 due to a gread deal that was offered. I have the new Fast7 on the way, I still have the TT7 and Rocket R1 in the fleet. I want to check my speed and what not after a 200 mile ride. Then go for a run…we know that the Pro’s can win on a P3, we know it is a great bike. All that is at question is if it is a great bike for me. And…like I said, I need to play with the fit a bit more before I call it a “spade”.
This points out the reason why we don’t do test rides to buy bikes.
Out of idle curiosity: How is a person supposed to buy, if not from a test ride? I can’t imagine buying a bike without first doing a test ride.
Picking a bike from a test ride may be like picking a wife from one night in the sack, but picking a bike without a test ride strikes me like picking a wife from a personal ad.
Or are we suppose to trust bike shop owners to set us up with the right bike? Going back to the wife analogy, I’ll take my impression from a night in the sack before I go with a blind date picked by a pimp.
" Replace? No, just got a P3 due to a gread deal that was offered. I have the new Fast7 on the way, I still have the TT7 and Rocket R1 in the fleet"
If your not a pro you must be a millionaire!!
If nothing, this is an example that a test ride is not enough. What people say is not enough. What YOU ride is the only thing that will tell you what is good for you. You need more than 2 minutes in the saddle to tell you that. Iam not at all dsaying that the P3 is a bad bike, just maybe that the P3 is not right for me…not like I am a Pro Tri Geeek or anything.
To me it’s like listening to a new record. If I dig it right off the bat odds are you are going to find it collecting dust on my CD rack. If I can’t really get into it at first but realize it’s good after a few more listens I suuuuuuper dig it. Give it time and you will come into the cult.
Out of idle curiosity: How is a person supposed to buy, if not from a test ride? I can’t imagine buying a bike without first doing a test ride.
Picking a bike from a test ride may be like picking a wife from one night in the sack, but picking a bike without a test ride strikes me like picking a wife from a personal ad.
A great amount of trust is involved. Last fall, I purchased a bike from Mr. Demmerly’s shop, and it was nearly bizarre. I made an appointment and tried to clear my mind of all preconceived notions. A Bikesport employee measured me seventeen ways to Sunday. Many numbers were then entered into a computer. Brochures and web sites were consulted. A Ouija board was briefly considered. (that part is a lie) Things were scratched on a legal pad. I was asked about budget and component preferences. Then the guy said:
“When you walked in here, (and I’m really shouldn’t do this), I thought, ‘This guy’s frame is a lot like Tom’s. He’s going to have a wide selection of bikes that fit him.’ Now that you’ve been measured and analyzed, it turns out that my early notions were wrong. There’s one bike that suits you best, the Brand X Model Y.”
Then I produced a credit card and bought the bike, which I picked up a couple of weeks later. The process is 180 degrees from what I had been through before – I had to trust the fitter to know what he was doing as opposed to trusting myself to make the call.
Oh. I’m very pleased with the results.
“Or are we suppose to trust bike shop owners to set us up with the right bike?”
Yes. Absolutely. And hold him 100% accountable for the results.
Your trustworthy, experienced, triathlete (i.e. has actually done more than four local triathlons) bike fitter has bought thousands of bikes. You’ve only bought maybe 2-4. Who’s judgement is better?
It kind of cracks me up when people come in and say, “I did some research and this is what I want.”
Cool. Knock 'em where they lean. The customer is *always *right. But a wise person takes the advice of experts.
“But a wise person takes the advice of experts.”
Tom haven’t you figured out by now that every triathlete considers himself an expert? Its not just bike fit. We consider ourselves experts in swimming, biking, running, training cycles, nutrition, bike fit, aerospace engineering, leg shaving, and everything else under the sun. For every hour we spend training, we spend a least one reading about it. In general we are a very educated and VERY stubborn people. No one ever accused us of being wise, otherwise we wouldn’t spend $4000 on a bike that will make us 10sec faster than a $1500 dollar one.
‘This guy’s frame is a lot like Tom’s. He’s going to have a wide selection of bikes that fit him.’ Now that you’ve been measured and analyzed, it turns out that my early notions were wrong. There’s one bike that suits you best, the Brand X Model Y.
With all due respect to Tom and his fine outfit, I am skeptical when someone claims that there is one frame that fits someone significantly better than any other.
ot
Well, since this thread was hijacked from the start (sorry…), let me synthesize all of the above advice. Without a doubt, you should visit a few retailers and ask them for their opinion on which bike is for you. I recommend that you not tell them your brand preferences or your conclusions based on your research. Let them pontificate. Odds are, you will get a different recommendation from each store you visit. Each one of these probably considers themself an expert. Certainly, take a test ride on each of these, and a few others you have been considering. To not at least take a spin is simply foolish. Ask if you can get a demo for a few days. This is merely PART of your knowledge base, not the determining factor. Do I really have to point out that while you obviously can’t determine conclusively if a bike is right for you after a 10 mile ride or a 3-day evaluation, it is at least a data point on which to draw? Personal preference is a very real determinant of how happy you will be on a given bike.
Then, return to the dealer that you liked the most. By like, I mean feel like you can trust, was personable, and didn’t act as if his opinion was the Bible. Ask him to evaluate the bike that you think is best for you. Trust his advice - he may think your preference is just as good as his, he may not. Proceed in peace with his advice.
Just as you shouldn’t base a spousal choice on merely a test ride, you similarly should not base the choice singularly on the advice of a self-proclaimed matchmaker. Consult many different sources of information - knowledge is power.
Oh come on, that way too simple.
I can understand that you don’t want to let people ride your bikes, which you then need to sell as new. There is nothing wrong with that, it’s a service you provide or you don’t, it’s your shop. But for me, a shop that lets me ride it has an advantage. Doesn’t mean the rest is better too.
now what really cracks me up. You guys are mixing two very different things. Fit and what bike one needs. You can fit almost anybody on almost any bike, with exceptions of course. Fit is about stem seatpost, handlebats and so on not about the brand. If you prefer steep angles you might be better of with a QR but you can also fit a Kuota!
No feel that’s different. Assuming you’re properly fit, doesn’t mean the bike feels like the other one. A QR Kilo doesn’t feel like a Kuota Kalibur nor like a Giant TCR but you can fit someone exactly the same way on all of those bikes. There are always exceptions of course, but I guess you don’t fit many people in your stor the Anderson way, do you?
Again, I respect your decision to not let people test ride but that’s a negative for me as a buyer. I can still learn from you and listen to your advise, that has nothing to do with the question at hand.
just maybe that the P3 is not right for me
if its not, and its a “55 cm”, you let me know. If the price is right, I’ll help you take that frame off your hands.
Cool. Knock 'em where they lean. The customer is *always *right. But a wise person takes the advice of experts.
Tom, I’m sure this doesn’t apply to you, but in my experience a lot of shops are well short of expert status. Some of the advice I have been given, or been witness to, would make your jaw drop.
As a consumer, the trick is to find a shop you trust and then take their advice. But to be honest that can be easier said than done.
Depends on your body type and how you’ll set up the bike as well. There are a lot of nice bikes out there I’d love to ride but my long torso and super steep preferred seat angle narrow down my brand choices quite a bit.
It’s like when people come in to see me for running shoes. For some people you basically just find a shoe they are comfy in, others who have specific needs get less choices and sometimes you end up reccomending shoes that they don’t really like all that much based on brand, weight, look… but based on thier needs will work better than any other shoe.
Choice is a good thing, but only if the choices will work for you. This is where specialty stores with well trained staff are a goldmine. Prices may not be the best and you’re choices may be limited by what an employee wants to sell you, but the chances are that you’ll end up with a very well fitting bike. It’s not guaranteed but it’s about the best guess they can make.
Your trustworthy, experienced, triathlete (i.e. has actually done more than four local triathlons) bike fitter has bought thousands of bikes. You’ve only bought maybe 2-4. Who’s judgement is better?
It kind of cracks me up when people come in and say, “I did some research and this is what I want.”
Cool. Knock 'em where they lean. The customer is *always *right. But a wise person takes the advice of experts.
While I think there is some merit to your criticism of test rides, the flaw in your logic lies in the fact that those experts are not objective; they also have a vested financial stake in what the customer purchases. This is a pretty big conflict of interest.
Re the expert label; I don’t consider myself an expert on cycling equipment, but I am reasonably knowledgeable. There are some folks I meet in bike shops that kick my butt on just about any technical issue. But there are also many that often don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
I would venture to guess that the approach you recommend will work with less than 5% of all bike shops in the US. (I really can’t speak for the rest of the world.) I’m sure that this is partly a reflection of the tough economics of the bike biz, the compensation is too low to retain smart and qualified people at all but the best shops.
Well,
Got some more miles in. As before, I am not sure what I was looking for…magic or something. Sometimes in the past I had ridden bikes that seemed to feel “special”. I had that with a couple Softrides, Litespeeds, old Specialized Allez Epic Pro (carbon, 15 years ago). Recently I felt that again on a short ride of an Elite, and a Scott CR1. The Elite for instance had a magic to it…something about it felt right, not sure what just something. The Scott was a no brainer - SUPER light (sub 13lbs) and stiff as a teenager in a dirty book store. The ride of the P3 is kinda “dead”. It may be the fastest bike I have ever ridden on, for all I know it feels the way a bike should feel - and I just dont notice it.
I will ride it again tonight…more size fixing and what not. I am going to do a TT style ride on Wed Night I think to see what my time is on a known course (not scientific, but good enough for me). I can easily live with lack of “feel” if the bike performs on the clock…god I am a Tri Weenie…