Hi ST followers,
I have been following ST forums for many years and have decided to share my experience.
I have been practicing triathlon for the last 7 years and long distance for the last 5. I am 51 years old coming from a running background (2h58m stand alone best marathon; 3h05m this year).
I am self coached following a very repetitive and probably boring schedule. For the last 4 months prior to an Ironman I weekly swim 3 times 3 km each, run 3 times (20 km , 15 km and long run 32 km) and cycle 3 times (2 indoor trainerroad of 2 hours each and 160 to 180 kms in the weekend.
In 2019 I decided not to do any bricks, not a single one. I must confess that I don’t see any benefits in running for 30 minutes after my 6 hour bike ride when I have no problem finding my running legs off the bike. This is a mistery to me as to why all the training plans swear by the brick mantra!!!
Instead, what I do may be harder for most people and might be impossible for beginners but serves me better than the bricks. In the last 4 months, on Saturdays I cycled aprox 170 kms 14 times ( I mix flat and hilly courses) and 10 of those weekends I run 32 kms on Sunday off tired legs finishing as fast as possible on the last 12 kms, from 20 kms to 32 kms.
With this regime, I ran 10h41m in Challenge Roth 2 weeks ago improving 15 minutes over my last Ironman and running a 3h44m marathon very conservatively (1h53m and 1h51m splits). I know Roth is a little short; 2kms for the bike and in 2019 on the new course 700 metres on the run on my Garmin…
To summarise, this is my experience and not something proven or scientific so might not work for most people apart from people with running backgrounds.
As an aside, I am quite careful with nutrition an hydration and used Beta Fuel by SIS for the first time on the bike with a marked improvement and less bloating once off the bike. For the run, SIS gels with and without caffeine…
Everyone, have a good day!!!
Can you finish an Ironman without bricks? Sure you can. I did 9:52 in Barcelona 2017 without a single brick. Can you be fast/competitive in IM without bricks. Not so much.
bullshit
Can you finish an Ironman without bricks? Sure you can. Can you be fast/competitive in IM without bricks. Not so much.
In 2019 I decided not to do any bricks, not a single one. I must confess that I don’t see any benefits in running for 30 minutes after my 6 hour bike ride when I have no problem finding my running legs off the bike. This is a mystery to me as to why all the training plans swear by the brick mantra!!!
I would argue that these days all the training plans don’t have bricks as much as they used to, but I understand the point you are trying to make.
That said, perhaps you could run more often? you could run after you ride, not as a “brick”, but just to add run frequency. Or, even better, you could run before you ride.
Whats the physiological benefit of running before the ride? I am curious.
Not true at all
I can count on my hand how many I have done in last three years and the only AG IM I have lost on that time was Kona
.
same as the physiological benefit of running…
bull shit indeed. I do about 10 bricks year, all but one or two of them are races and I’m a sub 9 guy
Maybe you would have run 3:30 if you were doing bricks in training.
Bricks have several purposes:
- practice running with fatigued legs
- test how the bike nutrition affects your run
- test how the bike pace affects your run
- general confidence for the race
If you have all the above sorted (and/or race often) the Brick sessions are probably not that important.
However a 10h41m finish with a 3m44m (negative split) marathon sounds like you went WAY too easy on the bike.
Why would we do bricks ? Well, are you satisfied with your run ? sub 3 PB, and 3:45ish for the marathon is ok to you ? If yes, then dont do bricks.
In my opinion, you do way too long sessions and way too few.
I train around 8/9 hours per week, 13h longest week this year. Swim around 2*2000m/week, 5-6 zwift rides, 4-5 short (7,5K, 30 mins) runs. For the “long” training I did one 120K bike ride, a few 100Ks and three long runs , 15K, 22K, 28K 10 days appart.
Did 9:50 this year, almost one hour better than my last IM last year. You need bricks because my PB marathon is around 3:25, yet I run at the same pace you did on the full distance (3:50, but the run course was 43,1K long). You should run much faster than that considering your running potential in my opinion.
I’m not saying everyone needs them. But if your run split is far from your potential (and if you didnt overbike of course), then I know a lot of people who got better by doing bricks.
Thanks everyone for your input.
I agree with many points highlighted in the comments. I was very conservative on the bike; NP = 183 when my FTP is 268 and also conservative on the run (not many people run negative splits) but I decided to play it that way. On a more aggressive day, I would have been close to 10h30m.
I also know I should be running close to 3h30m with my marathon best in 2019 at 3h05m but my point was that the bricks prescribed in many training schedules will do nothing for my run speed. You will agree that most of the bricks require a maximum 30 minute run after long bike sessions. As I pointed out, I have no problem running off the bike and I believe that doing my combo Saturday 170 kms bike ride followed by 32 kms run on Sundays (at around 4m30s per km pace) 10 times before an ironman are a good substitute to bricks. How many bricks are prescribed for non professional athletes running for example a half marathon? Very few from what I have seen.
As for running frequency, some people point at more than 3 runs per week as necessary. I may agree and have cut down this year from 4 to 3 runs but kept or even increased intensity thus improving the times. I normally run a marathon in winter so I believe I need less runnning frequency as I train for the Ironman.
For someone who’s been running that volume for the last 4 months, I’m surprised you only ran 3:44! I would venture most of us who’ve run 3:30 or better weren’t running close 77km a week.
In fact your total volume is pretty high; it must be pushing 18h/week maybe? Given that, again I’m surprised you (only) went 10:44 somewhere like Roth!
Can you finish an Ironman without bricks? Sure you can. I did 9:52 in Barcelona 2017 without a single brick. Can you be fast/competitive in IM without bricks. Not so much.
Oh that’s crap. “Bricks” are of limited value. Sure there is some amount of benefit to getting used to running on tired legs. But even that doesn’t actually do much for you. Running off the bike is a good way to get extra run volume in without the overhead of a whole separate workout, sure, but beyond that it really doesn’t do anything for you.
I bet if I go back through my last 3 IM builds, I could count the number of times I ran off the bike (outside of a race) on one hand.
There are a lot of smart people on here that prescribe running *frequency ** *as the key driver to success on the run. A brick gets you an extra session without having to take another shower and do all of the other prep/recovery associated with a workout. I’m sure you could run for 30 minutes in the evening the same day as your long bike and your race day experience would be similar.
There are a lot of smart people on here that prescribe running *frequency ** *as the key driver to success on the run. A brick gets you an extra session without having to take another shower and do all of the other prep/recovery associated with a workout. I’m sure you could run for 30 minutes in the evening the same day as your long bike and your race day experience would be similar.
This x100, especially if you are experienced running off the bike. It takes me a good 30-45 minutes to sufficiently cool down after an effort biking or running in the summer, then showering and such. Doing the workouts as a double, that’s almost an hour that I get to put back into my day.
If I’m working from home though, I’ll skip all that and just go to work, then do another workout over lunch and go back at it immediately, taking a shower before the wife comes home.
Can you finish an Ironman without bricks? Sure you can. I did 9:52 in Barcelona 2017 without a single brick. Can you be fast/competitive in IM without bricks. Not so much.
Is this supposed to be pink? Becuase 9:52 is blazing fast. Unless you’re trying to turn pro, then that’s slow.
Just for reference I am 51 years old so it´s a race against time… but I think you maybe right that I could improve my PB.
In Roth, my swimming was very poor (1h16m Roth vs my best 1h09m), bike was just quite slow at 5h32m on a short course (2kms short) with a very conservative run. As you say in the final 4 months my training gets close to 18 hours (weekends of aprox 10 hours divided in a 6 hour bike ride on Saturday, 1h30m swim and 2h30m long run on Sundays) and 8 hours during the week…
I know I can improve my swimming and particularly my bike to try to go sub10h30m… 1h10m swim / 5h20m bike / 3h30m run could be the target!!!