My First Penalty, Some thoughts on Officials & a recommendation for USAT

Triathlon Forum
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Quick Summary

  • Got my first penalty this weekend - position penalty

  • Official who called the penalty was new to the area and really had no explanation for me and was pretty rude

  • He called 10 of them during the race

  • Head official explained that his call didn’t seem to be within the ‘spirit’ of the rules and was sorry he couldn’t do anything

  • My question - Why don’t officials use video to document rule infractions? Could be a great learning tool for new racers and new officials. Also could be used to help enforce or turnover penalties.

What do you guys think?

Longer Version with juicy details

I raced in a USAT Regional Sprint Championship this past weekend. Beautiful day for racing, great course, fairly well organized event and a decent field made for a fantastic day of racing.

Unfortunately the good feeling only lasted for about 10 minutes after the results came out and my friend told me I had received a penalty. I was pretty shocked so I went and checked it out. Sure enough my number was there and I had received a position penalty.

While the infraction is probably common according to the letter of the rules, the penalty is actually rarely called and usually has to be pretty blatant enough to be a danger to other riders. Ever since one of my first races when I was passed by a guy yelling to me to “ride to the F-ing Right!” its something I make sure to do.

I was pretty angry at first because it bumped me from 1st to 3rd in my AG and I knew for a fact that the only time I was near the left half of the lane was when I was passing people. I also knew when the penalty had to have been called because there was only 1 time a motorcycle went by me and I know I was in the right half of the lane and had just passed 2 riders. Took me a bit to track down the official, which was good because it gave me time to calm down and approach him politely to inquire about the incident. He told me that he didn’t have his notes on him, didn’t really remember my bike or racing kit but said I would have had to have been way out of position to be given a penalty. I said I didn’t recall ever being in the left hand portion of the lane and he wouldn’t have been able to pass me on the motorcycle without moving into the oncoming lane if I was that far out of position as he stated I must have been. He then explained that it wasn’t as simple as a 50/50 split of the lane, but that HE divided the lane into 1/3s and if you weren’t in the far right 1/3rd at all times when not passing or avoiding an obstacle you were out of position and deserved a penalty. I didn’t argue with him, but asked if he could grab his notes or voice recorder to let me know exactly what I had done wrong so I didn’t repeat it in the future. He said they were in his car and to just ride to the right…end of conversation.

The head official then found me since the race director tracked him down as I had asked about it earlier. I told him about the penalty and my conversation with the other official. Basically he said that different officials interpret the rules and apply them differently, and the other referee obviously called the position foul very tightly because there was 10 of them in a race with only about 400 people which he couldn’t recall happening in the 15+ years he had been an official. He said there was nothing that he could do, but was sorry as it seemed like the other official was not working within the ‘spirit’ of the rules.

Basically I got two completely opposite approaches from two officials at the same race…which is supposed to be a Regional Championship. One guy is a total stickler while the other ‘lead’ official basically took the approach of its a race and if you’re not cheating, impeding someone elses race or putting someone in danger go ahead and race hard. I think this is what pissed me off the most about this penalty and the approach the first official took to the race. I was not gaining any benefit, if anything I was staggared so I wouldn’t have gotten any minimal draft off a person in front of me. I was not impeding anyone else, because otherwise I would have gotten a blocking penalty. I was not that far to the left to be putting anyone in danger or else the motorcycle or the 2 other guys who passed me on the bike would have had to pass on the right or move into the oncoming lane. The only person the penalty affected in the whole race was me and the two guys who benefitted from it by moving up in the standings…so why call it?

Also, with all the technology available today why don’t officials use video cameras from the back of motorcycles? It would be a great way to educate new racers and new officials as well to have a head official be able to walk either the racer through what the did wrong or why a newer official may or may not want to call a penalty in a certain situation. I know it would have been very helpful in this case for me to at least see the infraction that the official was describing.

I now know what it feels like to get one of these things and it REALLY sucks. Will have to be more careful in the future, but it would be nice to get some consistancy in officiating, especially at a so-called Regional Championship. Also would be nice to see some improvements in the system.

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  1. Sorry for the penalty, they are no fun to get
  2. How is the actual rule stated by the USAT?
  3. Live and learn. Sorry dude.
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Really sucks you got that penalty. Marty got the same penalty at the White Lake half this past year - he was way out in front by himself the entire bike ride, and only rode to the left at the bottle drop so they knew he didn’t want one, or to avoid debris/bumps. It definitely seems like that penalty is there for obvious reasons, but can be used pretty arbitrarily if an official is looking to give them out.

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  1. Thanks, and no they are definately not. Would have been easier to accept if it was drafting or blocking where I was affecting someone elses race, but since I don’t cheat I didn’t get one of those.

  2. Rule 5.10f from USAT rulebook states - “Except for reasons of safety and when no advantage is gained, all cyclists shall keep to the right of the prescribed course unless passing” - open to interpretation as to how far right that means. Also, from USAT’s Most Commonly Violated Rules & Penalties “Position - keep to the right hand side of the lane unless passing”. My interpretation is right half of the lane should be fine unless you’re blocking somone. Right hand side or Left hand side is a 50/50 split - not 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 like this Ref was saying.

  3. Done and Done. Just wanted to get it off my chest, give people a heads up to remember this one so it doesn’t happen to them, and maybe suggest some improvements to the system.

Thanks.

Mark

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So basically, you think the rule means you can ride down the virtual center of the lane?

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Yeah, definitely no fun.

Now that sounds even crazier than the one I got, and something that could have been reviewed post-race and overturned. Not sure why something like that would get called other than an official with nothing better to do…oh wait, here’s a suggestion…go take care of the damn drafters!! :slight_smile:

Hope you and Marty are doing well and that you’re both continuing the kickass seasons from St. Anthony’s.

Mark

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“Head official explained that his call didn’t seem to be within the ‘spirit’ of the rules and was sorry he couldn’t do anything”

it is now mandatory, as i understand it, for head refs to interview every official, and to consider the circumstances of every penalty. this is straight from charlie crawford, head USAT commissaire, chair of the officials committee. if this is not mandatory, this is at least how charlie comports himself at races, and it’s how he trains his head refs. if every incident is not remembered by the official, and explanable to the head ref, in a way that the head ref understands and assents to the circumstances of the infraction, the penalty is thrown out.

either you are leaving something out of your narrative, or something is getting lost in the translation, or charlie crawford has a head ref he needs to talk to.

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Not all rules are to deter gaining advantage. Some are for safety. Keeping to the right is a rule that does both: when others are around you, keeping right prevents blocking. When nobody is around, keeping to the right keeps the lane clear for traffic. Not every rider hears every overtaking car, so this rule is there to keep you out of harm’s way. If you are not on the right, you are in violation of the rule.

I’ll also point out that the Head Referee is the only person that hands out penalties: marshals just report what they think are rules infractions. “Nothing I can do” doesn’t cut it. It is the Head Referee’s job to determine the penalty. Usually this is done (by the many good HRs out there) by discussing each infraction with the marshal who reported it, and making a determination of the reasonableness of the call and thus the penalty. Had the HR talked to the marshal and examined the evidence (assuming the marshal had evidence, like the color of your bike and the time/location of the infraction), the HR would either support the infraction call or toss it.

(edit: I need to type faster…)

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Head official looked at his sheet with the penalties. My race number was on it, along with a description of my race kit, bike and helmet. It had the 5.10f penalty next to it and said - riding out of position. He said that he couldn’t undermine his other official and usually gave them the benefit of the doubt if they had at least the race number matching with a sound description of the race kit. He also said he ususally likes to see more of a description of the infraction, but that was what the guy gave him. The two of them did not speak about or review the penalty together while I was present, so I couldn’t say whether or not the penalty was reviewed or explained in detail. I do know it was the first time these two had worked together.

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No, that’s not my interpretation or what I said.

I’ve been racing for 4 years and this is the first penalty I’ve gotten and the first incident outside of one of my early races where anyone on the course has had an issue with where I was riding in relation to the course.

There is a difference between riding down the middle of the lane the whole way (unless you’re constantly passing) and riding a couple feet left of the rider in front of or behind you.

I stated that I was never far enough left, even when passing, that I was impeding anyone or causing a safety issue and that the official was calling the penalty too tightly. Even the head official agreed with that.

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Is there money at stake? Or just pride? You still know you were fastest =)

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Is there money at stake? Or just pride? You still know you were fastest =)

And it makes a difference?

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From what you wrote, I gathered that you think that there are two halfs to the lane: the left half, and the right half. (Not thirds, halfs!) And if you were riding on the right half, you shouldn’t be penalized.

That’s a technically valid interpretation of the rule, I suppose, but it *would *allow you to ride down the center of the lane- or an inch from it, anyway. I take the rule to mean that you keep over to the right. On the right. Way over there, on the right.

I stated that I was never far enough left, even when passing, that I was impeding anyone or causing a safety issue

Yeah, but that’s not what the rule says. How far from the right were you, again?

I’m sorry about the penalty, and maybe I wouldn’t have nailed you with it, myself. Maybe I would have, though.

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Completely agree that this is a safety rule, and even alluded to such in my original post (kind of lost in the long narrative). However, it sounds to me from my first experience with this penalty and talking to officials that it is not called consistantly and there should be some leeway. I know for certain that I was not barreling down the middle of the lane, but often did not come fully to the right between passing riders as I was going to be passing again very shortly. Even then I did not even approach the left hand portion of the lane and was riding more staggered like the pro’s have to than passing way off to the left.

From my impression, there wasn’t a thorough review of the infraction or many of the other position penalties called on the day. The head official just said that ‘different people see/call the penalty differently’ and that it didn’t sound like it was something he would have called, but that there wasn’t a lot of detail provided on the penalty sheet he had other than my race number, kit description and ‘riding out of position’. He said he couldn’t undermine the other official and he was sorry because I had approached him like a gentleman about it.

Still curious to hear about what people think about the feasibility/practicality of using video for penalty review.

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No money at stake. Just pride, and yeah I know I beat the kid who wound up winning but at the time I felt like I had been robbed of something I had worked hard for and it would have been nice to get the recognition for it. By the time I got home I was pretty much over it and am moving onto the next race a little wiser.

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Getting a penalty is like getting the first dent in a new car, or getting your first speeding ticket. The first one always hurts the most. Mine was improper passing. I wasnt too close. Did I take too long? Who knows. To this day, I still cant figure this one. I never got much of an explanation either. Do yourself a favor, dont dwell on it. You cant change it. Yes it sucks.

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The way the rule is worded in the USAT rulebook and in the common violations handout is pretty open for interpretation. If there is a right hand side, than the other side is the left hand side. I’m just saying there is some leeway there and that the situation should be taken into consideration, not just a black and white ‘you weren’t in the right hand 1/3 of the lane’…where does it ever say thirds??

At the time I was passed by the official, I had just passed two riders with a couple feet of space in between handlebars. Those riders were both riding the white line as there was a small shoulder with debris and was for most of the way unusable. I didn’t move all the way back over to the white line as there was another rider a bit ahead that I wound up passing within the next 20 seconds or so.

The rule only states to ride to the right of the prescribed course, which I certainly felt I was doing but was obviously not within the small zone that the official was calling.

I don’t think you would have called it. I’ve looked at penalties from other races and seen how far out a lot of people ride, and this position penalty usually only shows up once or twice in races of 500 or so. Technically I may have been too far right according to this officials interpretation of the rules, but from what I heard from the head official it wasn’t something that should have been called.

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Lol, hopefully I won’t get as many penalties as I’ve gotten speeding tickets. I’d be DQ’d left and right. Like I said in another post, pretty much over it, was just posting to help get the rest of it out there, warn others and propose a possible solution for improving the system. Sounds like you got a strange penalty too. Definately no fun at all. Thanks.

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Does it really matter what PLACE you came in in your AGE GROUP at a SPRINT tri?

Perspective, dude. Think about it.

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What part about that doesn’t matter? The PLACE, the AGE GROUP, or the SPRINT?