More run help, please

Triathlon Forum
1

I posted a couple of weeks ago about the poor state of affairs my triathlon running is in. I did a race this past weekend, and had better results, but I fear my run is still not where it should be based on my open running times. I wouid like to post a little more information, including my race results, and see if any of you can deduce any useful information. And yes, before we go much farther, I know that I am slow, and I am a bit embarrassed to post these times here. But I need help.

I am focusing on sprint races this year (or at least during the first part of the year) due to a job change and a lack of training time. I train an average of 8 hours a week, sometimes getting upwards of 10 hours. I don’t have any HR or powermeter information; I train strictly by RPE. Since I last posted about my running, I have lowered my 5K PR to 22:46. Saturday, I did a short, flat and fast sprint in Jacksonville, FL (400/11/5K). Here is how I stacked up:

10:26 swim, 29:29 bike, 26:26 run. The swim included a nice little jog up the beach and into a parking lot. I came out of the water in 8:58, which is slow compared to my 400 times in the pool (about 6:30). All in all, I was happy with my swim (eighth in AG, I think), and I was quite happy with my bike (road bike, sans race wheels and aerobars).

But my run. It just stunk. I’ve made progress on my swimming and my cycling, but not my running. My open run times are about as good as they have ever been, so my running is doing well. But running of the bike is giving me trouble, even at these short distances. My gut reaction is that my cycling fitness isn’t where it needs to be. I’m guessing I need to work on my cycling fitness, and do more bricks. Any creative brick sessions? I run off the bike regularly, but I think I need a little more creativity (and intensity) in these sessions.

This may be a little vague, but I’m hoping that those of you in the know will see some kind of trend here based on the above race results.

Oh, and before someone tries to blame my poor run on a slack seat angle, my 5K run in sprints has hovered around 26:30 to 27:30 no matter what bike I ride. Last year on the same course, I posted a 27:02 run after a 30:13 bike on a steep angled tri bike. So I’m not too sure about the steep angle argument, at least not yet (and not at such short distances).

RP

2

No real answers from me, just what I know about myself. I run :30-40 per mile slower off the bike from 3mi-15mi.

Make sure you are not going to hard on the bike. Giving up 1 minute on the bike to gain 3 minutes on the run is a good gain in the larger picture.

Run more is my solution. I do intervals at lunch on steady paced runs at night.

3

to get fast in running you need a really really big base. honestly–do more mileage on your long run day. don’t pair it with a brick either. you need a really focused successful long run day that will get your volume up. like most will tell you they were fastest when they had huge volume weeks, and had speedwork laced in with that.

the race is won on the run. so, focus on the run, but you’ll have to do it strategically–and not get hurt. stretch, and add only 5-10% a week, mostly over one run (the long run). the reason i say not to pair it like a brick is so that you can soley focus on the run and get the most out of it. you’ll see the greatest results this way.

make the same day everyweek your long run (in general, some flexability will be necessary and healthy for your program).

what is your long run everyweek?

what is your running program in general every week? (ie, one easy 3, one day speed intervals, one tempo, one long run–this is an example of what i did and became pretty fast…but speed is realative)

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How often do you do bricks? Running off the bike is way different than stand alone running (obviously). I try to run after every bike ride, even if for 20-25 minutes…kj

5

Yep. If you can do 22s in a 5K no reason you can’t do 24s or even 23s off the bike. How hard did you bike?

For sprints, I would put the minimum mileage for most MOP people who want to improve at 70 bike miles a week and 20 run miles. That’s about 4.5 hours of cycling and 3 hours running. Long rides and runs should be 2X as long as typical sprint distances or more. Run hills and hit the track and/or run tempo once a week. I believe in variety in bricks so one week a 20mi.-2mi. might do, next week try a 12-4. Just my idea.

I’m trying to ‘build up’ during the course of my bricks. One I did last week was a 25 mile ride and a 3.5 mile run. The last 10 miles/30 min. of the ride were HARD (not quite at LT, but well beyond normal, say 80 to 85 percent, compared to 70 to 75 percent most days) then tried to make the transition quick (3 min. to put bike away, change clothes) and did the 3.5, first mile easy and last 2 pretty hard. Pretty basic concept.

I’ll see how it all goes on Sunday in my first race (oly distance). happy training! -TB

6

Run more often in training…work up to 6 or 7 runs per week. Run frequency is the way to get faster…Run frequency and certainly one long run per week (whatever “long” is to you currently…but you should build toward a 2 hour long run…even if you only plan on 5k-10k running). And, yes, 1 or 2 of these runs should be bricks…

Only when you have this kind of run frequency are you going to be ready for more risky suggestions like tempo runs and track work…

In short…run MORE.

7

Brian, Brian, Brian,

What kind of advice is that? Just run more. People don’t want to hear that. You need to tell them to do 10x400 at their vo2 max with exactly 1 minute of rest in between. Or something that sounds really cool. No one wants to be told they just have to train more if they don’t have the time.

Next you will be telling them it takes years of aerobic training to really come anywhere close to their potential. Years? I don’t want to suffer through years of aerobic training. I want to be fast now. Or at least a month from now … I can wait that long.

Who knows? Maybe someone will listen. Hard work is just hard. :slight_smile:

Chad

P.S. I just ran my slowest ever half marathon over the weekend. 13.5 miles in 2:05. All dirt. Climbed 3,000 feet. Starting temp 97 degrees. Had to carry most of my own water. What fun.

8

But I don’t want to run more . . .

Your post makes more sense than just about anything else I’ve read (not that the others didn’t; yours just makes MORE sense). My weekly mileage is about what someone else mentioned earlier: 70-80 miles on the bike, 20-25 miles running. I can usually squeeze in a few more bike miles, but it’s hard for me to get in 100 miles per week cycling and 30+ miles running. My schedule has become that hectic lately. I’ll go back to the drawing board and see what I can throw together running-wise. I did a lot of running over the winter, and I’ve got a solid running foundation.

Maybe I rode too hard on the bike, but come on, it’s a sprint. I try to go has hard as I can from the start to the finish. I don’t think about pacing or controlling my HR during an 11 mile bike ride. I just go. Maybe that’s not the right attitude, but I try not to overthink things in a sprint tri. Just hammer (for me) all the way through.

Back to your original point: I can increase my run frequency. That won’t be hard to do. May not be pleasant, but I can swing it.

RP

9

You didn’t ride too hard on the bike…it’s a sprint tri and you are supposed to ride hard.

Do you know what HR you are racing in?

My 2 cents…make your fast runs faster and your slow runs slower, go to the track and the continous bricks.

Continous means 5-10 transitions. Ride around the block 3x, run 1x, bike 3x, run 1x…5 to 10 times.

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"My 2 cents…make your fast runs faster and your slow runs slower, go to the track and the continous bricks.

Continous means 5-10 transitions. Ride around the block 3x, run 1x, bike 3x, run 1x…5 to 10 times."

Good ideas all.

11

You didn’t ride too hard on the bike…it’s a sprint tri and you are supposed to ride hard.

You have obviously never road real hard. During a hard TT or fast ride I am lucky I can walk afterwards.

Fast people work hard and know how to suffer. Those are tears of joy on my sunglasses.