Saw this article http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-03-firefighter_x.htm and couldn’t help but think about a couple of things. First, given all of the coverage and debate about Terri Schiavo, why is this story not front page or the lead for every main stream press organization? Second I think this is like people opposed to the death penalty. The argument being “what if we execute an innocent person?” So if this man awoke after 10 years from a vegetative state didn’t we owe the benefit of the doubt to Terri Schiavo and her parents that she might do the same?
I work with a guy who is cousin’s with the man who just woke up, and we spoke about it two days ago.
The family has strongly resisted a lot of media attention (turned down numerous interviews after finally doing some recently) because they don’t want exactly what you are talking about. They may eventually change their minds about this (I didn’t ask of course about Schiavo because that would be very rude as I don’t know this guy that well), but so far they have been laying low it seems.
They have also been very concerned about his actual recovery. The doctors were not sure that it would persist (his being awake that is), so they wanted to give him some time to settle into things.
And before we totally draw parallels (which may be totally warranted) we should (or experts, or whoever) take a good look at what the actual medical similarities. I have not read (nor did I ask as I state above) if he was actually in a similar medical situation as Schiavo. It sounds like it, but the more I read the less I’m certain. The article in USA Today glances over his medical condition. But it does state that he might have been sentient on some levels during his 10 years.
I think this is deserving of its own thread, but can you imagine being him??? He has a few sons (4 I think) and in the 10 years he’s been out his youngest grew up a lot (3 to 13), when he first saw his sons he thought the youngest was the eldest, and it really shook the kid. But imagine all the world history he has missed, all the technological advancements. It’s really lame, but I can’t help but think of “Austin Powers” and how he had missed so much, it amazes me.
Hopefully he continues to recover and continues to maintain if not develop more cognitive awareness and physical abilities. He’s clearly not totally out of the woods yet, but even just being awake for a little bit has to be amazing for his family.
Wow. Small world. Thanks for sharing that. I don’t know much about his condition either and how closely it relates to Terri Schiavos but on the surface it sure does warrant a look.
I can appreciate the question being raised, but this guy’s condition sounds much different from Terri Schiavo’s. Obviously we’d need some actual medical comparisons, but it sounds like this guy was semi-functional, but mute and blind. Obviously his memory was affected, but it doesn’t sound, at least from these reports, that he was in the kind of vegetative state that Schiavo was in.
I can appreciate the question being raised, but this guy’s condition sounds much different from Terri Schiavo’s. Obviously we’d need some actual medical comparisons, but it sounds like this guy was semi-functional, but mute and blind. Obviously his memory was affected, but it doesn’t sound, at least from these reports, that he was in the kind of vegetative state that Schiavo was in.
Agreed. This guy was minimally conscious (he would occasionally respond “yes” or “no”, and track objects with his eyes); Terri Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state, with no higher brain function.
No comparison.
I thought the EXACT same things as you when my co-worker told me about it. My jaw almost dropped to the ground, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t heard about it on the news yet. But his explanations made a lot of sense. Don’t be too surprised if by Friday we are hearing a lot more about this guy, it’s been a fairly slow news weak.
And it more than warrants a comparison, anyone who has questions about a living will etc should read about the guy as much as they are able. I bet the Buffalo area newspapers have a lot more information on him.
Any which way, when I put myself into his hospital slippers, it just amazes and awes me.
I have seen videos of Terri Schiavo and she too tracked moving objects with her eyes. She also responded with what would be described a s a “gutteral” sound when interacting with her mother and father. Now just becsuse you could not distinguish a clear “yes” or “no” does not negate her efforts at communicating. I think there is a very real comparison. Also the article said he was blind so I don’t see how he could track objects.
So if this man awoke after 10 years from a vegetative state didn’t we owe the benefit of the doubt to Terri Schiavo and her parents that she might do the same?
I guess it depends on whether you think Terri would want to be kept alive or not. I think that was the heart of the battle and then both sides added a bunch of stuff to make their side look better. ‘We’ don’t owe anything to Terri Schiavo other than to ensure that her wishes were carried out.
I think it is amazing that this guy woke up though, it must be terrible to realize how much you’ve missed after that much time.
I have seen videos of Terri Schiavo and she too tracked moving objects with her eyes. She also responded with what would be described a s a “gutteral” sound when interacting with her mother and father. Now just becsuse you could not distinguish a clear “yes” or “no” does not negate her efforts at communicating. I think there is a very real comparison. Also the article said he was blind so I don’t see how he could track objects.
As I would have said to Dr. Frist, be careful when you make a diagnosis based on snippets from a video. From what I’ve heard from the neurologists who actually examined and cared for her, Terri had no higher brain function. She was incapable of responding to her parents or anything else. What you thought was interaction and motion tracking was random activity, much like her appearing to smile.
He was not blind. From the NYTimes:
“Mr. Herbert, 44, a Buffalo firefighter who suffered severe brain damage after being struck by debris in a burning building in 1995, had mustered only “yes” and “no” answers sporadically throughout the years, passing his days in front of a television that he could barely see because his vision was so badly blurred.”
This is true she did “appear” to do these things in response to interactions. However, if you listen to those who evaluated her, who had no agenda, did not take sides in the matter, you hear the rest of the story. If you stood outside her room and watched her when she was alone, nobody else in the room, she did these exact same movements and made the same sounds. It wasn’t in response to anything, it’s just the natural “activity” of someone in a persistent vegetative state.
It sounds like the situation this firefighter was in is totally different. Remember Terry Schiavo essentially had no gray matter, she wasn’t capable of doing these things.
I agree with everything but your last sentence (not that you care). But imagine how great it must be to realize you are awake! (after you get over the intial “I was out for 10 years? The Bills blew how many Super Bowls?” effect)
So the guys’ recovery may not have been totally spontaneous…
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/05/05/firefighter.recovery.ap/index.html
So the guys’ recovery may not have been totally spontaneous…
So what?
So the guy had a condition which doctor’s thought they could treat. Only religious fundamentalists thought they could treat Terry Schiavo.
Oh, I care. I guess I’m more of a glass half empty person.
So the guys’ recovery may not have been totally spontaneous…
So what?
To me that’s a good thing - instead of a spontaneous event that no one can explain, we now have some (albeit not great yet) evidence of concrete steps that can be tried in other patients with long-term brain damage.
I don’t know how comparable his condition was to Schiavo’s, so I don’t really know if that’s true or not. I do know that one of the complaints in the Schiavo case was that he refused to allow therapy. Maybe it would have worked for her just like it did for the firefighter.
Well I’m sure her parents and those religious nuts who camped on the yard tried a lot of prayer therapy and apparently that doesn’t work at all. Why would they need any science to help out anyways. There is no therapy to bring someone back from where Terri Schiavo was except in the minds of fundamentalists trying to score points in some media circus.
There is no therapy to bring someone back from where Terri Schiavo was except in the minds of fundamentalists trying to score points in some media circus.
Then I guess you must have some knowledge about the firefighter’s condition that I haven’t seen. Because from what I’ve read so far, it isn’t exactly clear how similar/dissimilar his condition was to Schiavo’s.
It’s not my fault if I read news stories that you do not. I’m sure religious nutcases around the world will jump on this and say, hey, Schiavo should have gotten this treatment, too.
Conservative (non religious nut) sources:
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/05/05/hscout525539.html