Mayor Of New Orleans Nagin

I will not argue that Nagin/local officials don’t have substantial responsibility for what occurred. Some were beyond his control(again, you can order police, et. al. to be anywhere you want, but what are you going to do if they desert? How do you force them not to desert?). With that said, it’s completely disingenuous not to point out that the feds had a completely disorganized and slow response to the post-hurricane relief effort as well.

Quite frankly, a number of those questions could be asked about the feds as well because, as I understand it, the governor declared a state of emergency two days prior to landfall which(again based on my own understanding) enabled the feds to swing into action.

If you read the existing evac plan you’ll see that he did not follow it at all.

Outside of that though, if your going to tell you people to go to certain locations like the Super”doom” and the convention center for their own safety don’t you think it is your responsibility as the mayor of the town to help insure that safety? Keeping in mind that it was pretty clear by mid day saturday that the storm would hit NO by Monday AM he had almost day to prepare answer the following questions.

Why weren’t security/police at the various sites in force?

Why weren’t medical staff at the various sites in force?

Why wasn’t a multi-day supply of water brought in?

Why wasn’t a multi-day supply of food?

Why were there no porta johns brought in to handle the sewage?

Why was there no portable power generation brought in for basic lighting.

And most importantly-

Why did he wait until less than 24 hours before the storm to order the mandatory Evac

and What wasn’t the mandatory evac actually mandatory?

I think you’re asking a bit much - first of all, he didn’t know the levees were going to break, and that’s the main cause of NO’s problems, not simply the storm. Most of the stuff you ask for is unreasonable… takes an awful lot of state and federal cooperation to ensure a multi-say supply of food, and even then, I’m not sure what can be done with a couple days notice. And please, all of you with the “What wasn’t the mandatory evac actually mandatory?” stuff - there’s no way the NOPD can forcible evacuate the city. The onlywas they’re doing it now is with the military.

I’m not saying Nagin is spotless in this incident, I really dont know. When you post “If you read the existing evac plan you’ll see that he did not follow it at all” I’d really be curious to see the actual plan and where he didn’t follow it. But what seems clear to me is that the scope of the disaster very quickly became too big for local authorities to handle, and that much of the unnecessary suffering is due to a poor response at the state and federal level. And yes, that includes (of course not limited to) Bush.

Brian, I read the quoted material but I don’t see anything specific that was ignored by the locals. What specifically did they not do?

Quite frankly, a number of those questions could be asked about the feds as well because, as I understand it, the governor declared a state of emergency two days prior to landfall which(again based on my own understanding) enabled the feds to swing into action.

Again this isn’t entirely correct.

Declaring a state of emergency puts FEMA on alert. It does not put the burden of recovery efforts on FEMA.

FEMA in large part provides manpower and supplies to relief efforts. It must be coordinated with officials at the local level.

FEMA is like the howitzer. The gunner is the guy aiming the howitzer. The gunner in this case is the local government.

Brian, I read the quoted material but I don’t see anything specific that was ignored by the locals. What specifically did they not do?

They didn’t provide adequate shelters as outline in their SOP.

Shelter demand is currently under review by the Shelter Coordinator. Approximately 100,000 Citizens of New Orleans do not have means of personal transportation. Shelter assessment is an ongoing project of the Office of Emergency Preparedness through the Shelter Coordinator.

They didn’t provide transportation as outline in the SOP in the event of an evacuation order.

D. Regional Transit Authority

  • Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.

  • Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.

  • Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.

  • If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.

They provded shelter at the Superdome/convention center and transportation there.

Was it adequate, well apparently not. But again, it’s a bit much for the city itself to feed tens of thousands of people for many days. What was needed was either transport out of the city, or additional food/water/security from the Natl guard - the biggest problem was that it took way too long for the guard to be brought in in force to take over.

Hey…Did you ever go to pre-school??? This one is for you…you stupid liberal idiot.

http://www.mightyrighty.com/images/0805/busses.jpg

http://www.kollinger.com/_toons/evacuate96.jpgOut the back door with the Senator of La…real good leadership.

They provded shelter at the Superdome/convention center and transportation there.

The city was under a mandatory evacuation. The mayor ordered it but didn’t enforce his order. Instead, he carted people by bus to the superdome which was still in the danger zone.

So how is it that he ordered a mandatory evacuation from the city but carted people within the city to an equally dangerous place.

But again, it’s a bit much for the city itself to feed tens of thousands of people for many days.

To Nagin’s credit, he did tell people they would need to bring water and food for 3-5 days. In addition the city SOP it specifically covers food and water and the responsible party for coordinating its distribution. It specifically lists the office of emergency preparedness. I list the excerpts below.

Identification of sheltering resources and the establishment of shelters and the training of shelter staff is important, as is the provision for food and other necessities to the sheltered. This preparation function is the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Preparedness.

Feeding and food and supply distribution sites shall be established following a disaster in geographically distributed sites across the Parish. Feeding sites shall be established by ESF?6, Mass Care, in conjunction with ESF?11, Food and Water. The Southeast Louisiana Chapter of the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army shall provide the lead in establishing and operating these sites. The Second Harvest Food Bank shall provide leadership in the acquiring and distribution of food and water. ESF?15, Volunteers and Donations, shall direct outside resources to the appropriate sites where these volunteer services can best be used.

**Natl guard - the biggest problem was that it took way too long for the guard to be brought in in force to take over. **

The guard falls under orders from the governor. Why did it take her so long to dispatch them?

I think you’re asking a bit much - first of all, he didn’t know the levees were going to break, and that’s the main cause of NO’s problems, not simply the storm. Most of the stuff you ask for is unreasonable… takes an awful lot of state and federal cooperation to ensure a multi-say supply of food, and even then, I’m not sure what can be done with a couple days notice. And please, all of you with the “What wasn’t the mandatory evac actually mandatory?” stuff - there’s no way the NOPD can forcible evacuate the city. The onlywas they’re doing it now is with the military.

I’m not saying Nagin is spotless in this incident, I really dont know. When you post “If you read the existing evac plan you’ll see that he did not follow it at all” I’d really be curious to see the actual plan and where he didn’t follow it. But what seems clear to me is that the scope of the disaster very quickly became too big for local authorities to handle, and that much of the unnecessary suffering is due to a poor response at the state and federal level. And yes, that includes (of course not limited to) Bush.

You’re correct that no one knew for certain that the levees were going to break. But at the same time everyone and their brother knows that the levees were designed to handle a Cat 3 storm. I watched the news all day Sunday and the storm was running 175 Mph winds which the news casters were calling a Cat 5.5 storm. Knowing you have that barreling towards you and your levees were not designed to handle anywhere near that is it any surprise they failed? That is a major risk that needs to be accounted for, and it doesn’t appear it was.

As far as asking to much- I heard on the radio the other day that the Mexicans put a 10 day food and water supply in place for similar disasters. Now if Mexico can do that you would think that we could. Even so I don’t think I am asking to much. How hard is it to order up several truck loads of bottled water or even tankers with water and have them parked inside the building for protection? Same goes for food, it doesn’t need to be a 5 course meal, just enough to get through. I am sure there are several Walmart type distribution centers around NO that could handle such orders. As far as generation, call every rental house (Hertz, RSC, Sunbelt United ect.) in the town and tell them to bring in every generator and light tower they have. Now for the police, you’d think that would be a no brainer. And if the Gov had mobilized the National Guard like she should have they could have been used as well. Rounding up the medical staff to me would be the hardest part, but I think something could have been done at least on a minimal level. Maybe park all the ambulances along with Docs and EMT’s inside the building. This would allow for on sight Med care and save the much needed ambulances for used after the storm passed. Every city I have ever lived in has their own porta potties, additionally there are companies that rent them out. Could you get as many as you need inside a 48 hour window maybe not? But I am sure a large number could have rounded up which would have certainly helped the sewage situation. One other thing, we have seen all the pictures of those school busses sitting in a flooded parking lot, I’d bet a large number of them could have been parked inside the convention center and Super”doom” (of course after they brought people there, you’d that would have been done) and saved for use after the storm.

Think about the Win-win for the companies involved here- All of their assets which would have been destroyed otherwise, are now in a safe place making money and helping people. I am sure the companies would jump at such a chance. Additionally all of the assets would be saved and available for after the storm. Think about how valuable those ambulances, school busses generators and light towers would have been for the days following the storm and flood.

Now I have never claimed to be the brightest guy in the world and I have not ever been trained in emergency planning. But it took me all of 5 minutes to think of these things and ways to possibly deal with them. I would hope that the so called experts could do far better and would have a plan in place with pre-established contracts for the delivery of the items listed. Even better they would have those supplies already in a warehouse waiting for such an event. But again that is just me thinking.

I agree that the federal response was slow and poor at first, but now it is more than acceptable. I also know that Bush said the same a few days ago. But I think that the overwhelming majority of the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the Mayor and the Governor, something like 95% if you want to put a value on it.

Think of it this way, FEMA inherited a mess far worse than it should have. Had the Mayor done the simple things I listed, had he called for the evac earlier many many more people, possibly tens of thousands would have been out of harms way. Had the Gov federalized when she was asked to, had she released the national guard before the storm, relief and security would have already been in place to prevent some of the shooting and looting and keep order while also assisting in evac. Had all of that taken place the people in the Super”doom” and conventions center would not have been in such a dire situation and could have stayed there a bit longer so rescue resources could have been used else where. Imagine how many peoples lives could have been saved just by doing that and how much easier FEMA’s job have been in the days immediately following the storm and flood.

Please please for the 50th time explain to me how he was going to enforce a mandatory evac? Explain to me how any moderately sized city could enforce a mandatory evac.

And when it became apparent that there were thousands of people unable to leave NO, should he have not attempted to get them to what was thought to be the safest building in the city that also had the capacity to hold people?

I think it was apparent fairly early on that the Govenor and Mayor didn’t have their shit together. I also think it was apparent that FEMA and the Feds didn’t have their shit together either.

I offer that a leader will lead regardless of their rank. I have seen many of E-4’s and E-5’s I would follow in a firefight when people in “command” couldn’t make decisive descisions under pressure. This is what true leaders do. Some one should have stepped up and started to make decisions. If I was the president and I get “let me sleep on it” from the govenor when an Cat 5 hurricane is bearing down on one of the ports that fuel my enitre country I would have told her to go to bed and I will take care of it.

The city was under a mandatory evacuation. The mayor ordered it but didn’t enforce his order. Instead, he carted people by bus to the superdome which was still in the danger zone.

Mandatory evacuation doesn’t mean much when not everyone can get out, and the mayor doesn’t have the means to enforce it anyway. So he transported people to a central location where they wouldn’t drown… that by itself isn’t so bad.

To Nagin’s credit, he did tell people they would need to bring water and food for 3-5 days.

Maybe because he knew the local orgs weren’t going to be able to do it? If you look at te SOP, it clearly is not designed for a disaster of this magnitude where most of the city is underwater. Perhaps you can fault the locals for not having a better plan for a really big hurricane.

The guard falls under orders from the governor. Why did it take her so long to dispatch them?

I agree she did not display the kind of leadership needed in this situation. Look at my earlier post, I said feds and state. The locals are not scot-free either (and blame here definitely crosses party lines). I just think Nagin is getting too much blame for a situation which very rapidly became too big for him to handle. At least when he was over his head, he was demanding prompt state and federal involvement and he didnt get it.

**Please please for the 50th time explain to me how he was going to enforce a mandatory evac? Explain to me how any moderately sized city could enforce a mandatory evac. **

From what I understand you can’t really enforce a mandatory evacuation and pull people from their homes. However, you can say “this bus is only leaving the city” and ensure that resources are being used to get those who want to leave out of the danger zone instead of allocating resources to those who are unwilling to leave the city and stay within the area of danger. Enforce the mandatory evacuation by meaning what you say and allocating resources to stand by what you say. Otherwise you’re asking people to staff unsafe zones for those who don’t want to evacuate.

Agree to most of what you say. From a legal standpoint a mandatory evacuation really can’t be enforced. If people want to stay…so be it…

It’s apparent that New Orleans was short on resources to fully deal with the evacuation. So is it fair that resources were allocated away from those who wanted to get out to those who wanted to stay and ride it out? In addition, is it fair to ask and put firefighters, policemen and paramedics in harms way (the Superdome, the convention center) to supervise and handle a group of people who were told to evacuate but didn’t?

I saw on the news people in wheelchairs, the aged and infirm holed up at the superdome and convention center. Those areas were in the danger zone. It burns me to know that resources were spent to get them into a center that were understaffed and unfsafe for them to be under when those resources could have been used to get them fully out of the way of the flood prone areas.

However, you can say “this bus is only leaving the city”

Are you refering to the busses used to get people to the Superdome? (side note: I wish people would stop with the “Superdoom” - it sounds so stupid…)

I think if they had used those buses to get people out of the city, they would have left many more behind. You can make many more trips to and from the Dome, than to and from some destination 50 miles out of the city.

But again, it’s a bit much for the city itself to feed tens of thousands of people for many days.

To Nagin’s credit, he did tell people they would need to bring water and food for 3-5 days. In addition the city SOP it specifically covers food and water and the responsible party for coordinating its distribution. It specifically lists the office of emergency preparedness. I list the excerpts below.

Identification of sheltering resources and the establishment of shelters and the training of shelter staff is important, as is the provision for food and other necessities to the sheltered. This preparation function is the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Preparedness.

Feeding and food and supply distribution sites shall be established following a disaster in geographically distributed sites across the Parish. Feeding sites shall be established by ESF?6, Mass Care, in conjunction with ESF?11, Food and Water. The Southeast Louisiana Chapter of the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army shall provide the lead in establishing and operating these sites. The Second Harvest Food Bank shall provide leadership in the acquiring and distribution of food and water. ESF?15, Volunteers and Donations, shall direct outside resources to the appropriate sites where these volunteer services can best be used.

On Brit Humes Show last night in a interview with Major Garret. When asked why the red Cross had no been into the city. Garret responded this way, and I am summarizing, not quoting. Garret called the red Cross and he was told by the Red Cross that they had not been allowed into the city by the State Office of Emergency Preparedness which is controlled and run out of the Governors office. The OEP told the Red Cross that they did not want them in there because they did not want to create magnet. They did not want others in the city to find out that people at the Super”doom” had food and water and start coming to the building.

Of course no one, besides Fox News is reporting on this becasue it is much eaier to just blame Bush

You have some interesting ideas (and I’m not being sarcastic). Like you, I’m not an expert, and I dont know that all of them are feasible, but maybe some would have been.

I’m probably right with you on the governor. I also think ATX Trihead makes a good point as to what the Bush’s response to the gov’s indecision should have been…

http://tinypic.com/ddcrcj
.

Some one should have stepped up and started to make decisions. If I was the president and I get “let me sleep on it” from the govenor when an Cat 5 hurricane is bearing down on one of the ports that fuel my enitre country I would have told her to go to bed and I will take care of it.

If he had done what you’re asking people would be screaming bloody murder that Bush was “occupying with a military take over” La and NO. Additionally there was that little thing called the law that stopped Bush from doing it also.