Thought I’d launch this month’s thread. The alternative name was “we’re not old, we’re experienced” as mostly seniors posting.
4000 SCY
1200 (17:32)/200K
5x200IM on 3:40 (3:06-7)/200K
12x100P on 1:30 (1:15-18)/200K
Have to mention K. Ledecky’s WR in 800 this weekend. She’s been grinding out the meters and staring at that black line since Olympic gold medal since 2012. Unbelievable.
A very impressive swim from Ledecky after not being in her very top shape she is now at it. Wonder what the change is? Anyone got any info?
She is incredible. There are only a very small number of swimmers that have squeezed out more from their potential than her. Looking at someone like Janet Evans - Ledecky both has more speed, and more endurance to hold closer to her speed than Janet.
Only way someone can get close to her 1500 records is with freakish 400 speed (dropping it down to 353-354), or being just a bit slower over 400m but with even more freakish endurance capacities than Ledecky. Its the combination that makes Ledecky so dominant. Take Perkins and Hackett from AUS back in the 90s and 00s - neither of them had the same endurance capacities as Ledecky compared to their absolute peak 400m form (343 and 342 respectively).
Its only swimmers like Paltrinieri, Finke, Quadarella and some freak one speed masters swimmers that have more endurance capacity than Ledecky - but they dont have the WR level 400 speed.
It’s going to be less likely as distance swimming continues to play 2nd fiddle to sprinting. I get it, proper distance training is hard work for swimmers and coaches, takes up too much pool space (at least in a short course pool), and just isn’t exciting.
It doesn’t take a lot of space to run a sprint practice. Everything is form-based or you’re blasting sprints on high rest. Sure, towers and cords, high-level sprinting takes time and space but those programs have it.
But to ingrain distance during AG development, it’s not like you’ve got the space to have every kid on their own personalized repeat. So what happens… you either push everyone to the fastest and burn out/wear out the others, or pick a middling interval and it hinders the development of the fastest kids.
It is tough. And yeah, I don’t see anyone getting close to KL’s 8/15 until Summer McIntosh figures out something > 400. A generational talent and she’s 5s off the WR. She’s young. Who knows.
Keep in mind that Summer went an 8;11 in a nothing meet unrested last year, think Katie went about 8;17 in her meet tired at that time. And in this 400 race it was Summer setting the pace, only to be taken over by what looked like a fully tapered KL. Now not sure why anyone would taper for these meets, I think she just had one of those once a decade magical meet, and all her races were on fire.
And good for her, as it just looked like she peaked a decade ago and was on a long, slow slide to everyone catching up and her retiring. But this is something radically new, not sure why. Her stroke does look different, more of a sprint higher turnover, so perhaps that is the secret sauce she can carry forward.
But back to Summer, for sure she could challenge those swims, just that she has so many options to be best in the world in others, probably only see untapered off meets in the 800/1500. Looks to me like she might add the 200 back and free to her quiver to go with 200fly/200/400IM’s. It makes sense too, their relays are getting a lot better too, so maybe even a 100 fly/free…I see her falling into a Lochte type of program in the future…
She is so versatile and that’s where I don’t know that she would shift gears to what it would take to rip the back half of an 800? What do I know, watch her be the first to break 8 someday! She’s conceivably top 3 in the world in all of the 2IM, 4IM, 2FL, 2FR, 4FR, 8FR, 2BA?? And yes, with some age the 100s will start to get faster as well. I know they’ve (whoever they is) have crowned KL the GOAT freestyler. We might be watching the GOAT swimmer in Summer.
Do you think KL tapered because she’s such a lock for USA worlds team that this gives her time to re-taper for worlds, rather than trying for the double taper between US Nats and Worlds? That was my thought.
That’s the thing, I dont think she tapered for this meet, why?? I could see her coach doing a tiny rest just to make sure she gave Summer a good race in the 400, that would be a psychological battle. But a full taper and shave, no way, unless this was her A meet for some unknown reason.
But one thing for sure, whatever they did before this meet, that is the new taper going forward. Perhaps it was just some few day mini rest that got her to WR breaking form. Or it was just one of those days that cannot be explained, and you just take the win and move on and hope to replicate it in 2028…
Summer surely will be a great swimmer in history, but not GOAT status. She will not be winning all her events, but surely will dominate the 200fly and 400IM for years to come. And now with 50’s being added to the olympic program, I would say someone like Gretchen Walsh could be in consideration for GOAT. She will likely win all of her events, she sets a record almost every time she swims, breaks huge barriers, and likely with her teammates will win a shit ton of gold medals. A fun race if it were ever to happen, would be her and Summer in the 200IM, not sure who I would pick.
Gretchen has to show a 200 IM before we go down that path. I think Summer is going to dominate both IMs by LA28. She could very well win another 3 events in the 2FR,2FL,4FR. Phelps is the GOAT right? He was a FL, FR, and IMer. 100s were slightly better than Summer, but she has time on her hands.
All I know is… (a) it’s nice to talk swimming, and (b) between the UVA contingent, KL, and Summer, throw in Regan Smith, women’s swimming is going to be exciting through the Olympics.
eta: and that’s not even talking about the AUS contingent and random Euros.
4000 SCY
400 (5:47)/200K
6x200@3:30(2:48-51)/200K
Pull set:4x200@3:00(2:36-40),4x100@1:30(1:17-19)/200K
4x(75@1:20, 50@1:00, 25@30) cycle thru IM order
I’ve read Ledecky has no interest in open water, which is surprising because I think she’d be strong gold medal favorite in 10K in LA 28. For you open water guys (@monty @waverider101) what do you think? Would love to see her give it a go.
When you’re that good you don’t need to do 10km
She would get a lot of rough stuff from the others I’d say
Also the OW is quite tactical. Ledecky only knows one pace and that is FAST. Got to sit in the field for awhile during open water
2700 scy, got to pool late. Made it up on the fly
300 ez
6 x 50 on 1:00 descend 1-3 4-6
1:40 base pyramids
300 pull -:10
200 sw -:10
100 pull base
2 x 50 -:05
100 pull base
200 sw -:10
300 pull -:10
200 sw base
100 sw -:05
2 x 50 pull +:10
100 sw -:05
200 sw base
I look at her like we did with Grant Hackett, or more recently Daniel Wiffen. Both considered the best distance pool swimmers in the world, and both spanked quite handily by the OW specialists. There is a mindset of OW swimmers, and a lot of top pool swimmers just dont have it. Like the two I mentioned they gave it a shot and failed miserably. I think that Katie, Summer, and Titmus know it would be a huge challenge, and so much different that having your own lane and just pacing your race.
It would be fun after 2028 to see Katie change focus, but she would really have to love swimming and relish a new challenge. Dont see it happening as she is now a favorite once again for two golds, perhaps a 3rd, and whatever medal the 4x200 gets(probably gold or silver). Dont think she would risk that and a complete bookend to a one of a kind woman’s distance free career. Trying to go OW now would probably put her out of the 400, and perhaps even risk the 800…
My sickness has been hanging on like a dog with a bone, got in with dan yesterday and he wanted to do his test set of 10x100. His goal was 1;27/28’s, so I just paced him with 26+'s and a 23/21 on last two. He made it and averaged 1;27.5 and I got in another 1st workout back. Probably get in tomorrow and try again, cough is getting dryer and perhaps I can punch out of this shit corner this time around…
600 warm up
10x100 (1;27 to 1;21)
1600SCY
33x50 on 1min, assorted work shenanigans disrupted my schedule so I’d done weights yesterday, really felt it stiff and slow in the pool…
had not realized that would be my last swim for a couple of weeks, went in to have a cancer cut out of my ear and it was bigger and deeper than anyone expected… so now a big open wound, and no swimming for 2 weeks minimum… boo.
I think Katie L has changed coaches, now training with Bobby Finke in the pool. New stimulus often translates to gains…
did enjoy watching the races from that Pro meet. Regan said Bob B. has them swimming 8k a day so it was a relief to have a couple of days off to just race 
I believe Gretchen has broken 13 world records… Since June of this year. The 200 IM would be a great battle between the clear 400IM champ and WR holder, and the 100IM champ and WR holder. I just think the 200 is now more of a sprint and speed wins the day. But with all those 50’s and relays, Gretchen’s dance card may be overfilled already, and she will have to pass on one more event. Likely Summer swims it, but she will have to contend with sister and a few others that have some raw speed…
And yes you are right, great time to be a fan of swimming, especially the women’s side of things if you are from the US. We literally could put two or more on the podium in the WC, and the relays are looking super strong with WR holders all over the place. Does Gretchen swim up to the 4x200? No doubt she is top 4 fastest and with Ledecky back on her old form, even that one could contend with the Aussies once again(maybe?)
Gretchen is out of this world. I guess I was just alluding to wanting to see something outside of 50s/100s. Same reason I think it’s tough to paint KL as “the greatest” though she had range to the 100 FR. I still think Summer’s going to be the one. Anyway, all of them are flat-out awesome.
Yes, I think G Walsh gets herself on the 4x2, I just don’t know where she fits that swim in to qualify, prelims possibly and then scratch out? As far as 2IM, it’s so deep in the USA alone who knows if she even gets past her sister, Douglas, and/or Huske. Since she’s likely doing 50/100 FR/FL she could have room for one of those 200s. Some on SS floating the 50 Back as an idea.
Hope you are feeling better.
Yes it will be fun if Gretchen swims up to some 200’s, can’t help but think she will crush those too. Did feel better today, cough is dry and only had coughing fits 3 times in the water. Nothing worse than needing O2 and you start to cough…Also got this on some feed and I had never seen it. It is me 14 years ago in the 55+ AG at nationals. Someone on my team filmed my 100 breast, 400IM, and 100 fly. And dam it hurts to see how easy those times were and how a 50 at those paces is so hard now. I mean I work just as hard, hurt just as much, my stroke now is better as are my turns, but the clock doesnt lie. Getting old really isn’t for sissies…
Today did just a little more, just a little faster:
2x(6x100buoy or pull@1;40/4x100frog@2;00)buoys(1;28 to 1;23/pulls-1;19 to 1;17)frogs(1;53 to 1;50’s)
2x(50back@1;30/2x50p@1;00/2x50frog@1;15) backs(42/41)pulls(36+/35/35/33)frogs(56/55’s)
2500SCY in 50 minutes
Oh man, that’s awesome.
Thanks, and it was fun for me to see these races after all these years. 55 was a pretty good year for me as I recall, last time I did my birthday set on a pretty fast interval(55x100SCY pull@1;15)… And the last time I broke 5 minutes in the 400IM too!!
Got in the cooler sea level pool today, HR was high so back off half way through to make sure I dont relapse:
2x(600buoy or pull@1;40)4x100frog@2;00) buoys(1;26 to 1;23’s) pulls(1;16+ to 1;14’s) frogs(1;55 to 1;48)
3x200p easy@3;10(2;51/49/48)
6x50 kick@1;20 odds dolphin/evens frog (67/64/63) frogs(56/53’s) 100SD
3000SCY in 60 minutes
Nice vids Monty. Ive got some masters on the weekend, I think I am doing 50s in the back and free and a relay, and entered for a 100back. Not sure if I will stick around for that as that is right at the end and Ive got a lift up with the guys who live near me.
Swam 1 hour 10 today and I cant even remember all the parts of my set. I do remember this
1500
something
150 kick 400 free 100 kick 400 free 100 kick
something
400 free