My first post in the lavender room, because even after years of following this situation from afar, I still can’t fully be on one side and curious to the collective thoughts here.
I have leaned towards the defense of Maunakea by native Hawaiians simply because I understand the cultural importance of Maunakea and having grown up there, know all too well how much of an issue of land appropriation is to them and how often it continues to happen.
What keeps me from tipping over the edge is that this is not a hotel or a Walmart, this is something that can give back to the local community and to the world. I am also atheist so the religious part of their defense registers as irrelevant to me (and the fact that an overwhelming majority of these defenders and Native Hawaiians are also christian strikes me as conflicting).
Of course there are many more arguments on each side which I am not mentioning but they can all easily be found online. Like any divisive issue in the US these days, there are plenty of false claims on both sides that is muddying the issue further.
Welcome. I read the article but didn’t see who owns the property. Is this State land or private property? Has it been in use over the years or has it always stood vacant?
The problem with religious beliefs and the history they just make up, is that anyone can do it, about any place really. Garden of Eden on top Maunakea, I think geology and the timing of the island would beg to differ. It is certainly older than 6000 years…(-;
I wonder how many of the protesters even go up there, before all this kerfuffle? I think the context of what the state is trying to build is important though. If it were a strip club, then you lean towards the no vote. But an observatory that furthers mans knowledge of the universe and beyond, I say I side with the state on this one…
Land owned by the state and managed by University of Hawaii. Numerous telescopes already present. This particular plot is vacant.
Correct. The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled on this in 2018, saying the project could go forward.
I agree with the OP that this is a difficult case to take a strong stance on either side. The native Hawaiians had their land taken over a long time ago, and that sucks. Indigenous peoples have that grievance all over the world and throughout time.
On the other hand, I’m not really happy with the notion that these protesters can halt a perfectly legal project over questionable religious claims.
The hypocrisy makes me laugh when I see natives complaining about the land then you drive down some of neighborhoods and more isolated areas and all you see are abandoned cars and washing machines. Maybe it’s the haoles.
The problem with religious beliefs and the history they just make up, is that anyone can do it, about any place really. Garden of Eden on top Maunakea, I think geology and the timing of the island would beg to differ. It is certainly older than 6000 years…(-;
I wonder how many of the protesters even go up there, before all this kerfuffle? I think the context of what the state is trying to build is important though. If it were a strip club, then you lean towards the no vote. But an observatory that furthers mans knowledge of the universe and beyond, I say I side with the state on this one…
From what I understand from a distant cousin of mine who is a professor of Hawaiian studies (and of course, Native and fully on the defense), Native Hawaiians, even before TMT became a thing, regularly went to the summit alter and to lake Waiau for religious practices. I have heard of the visits to Lake Waiau (apparently, placentas are left there after birth as one practice) and have seen the summit alter kept up to date while I was growing up there but am wary to accept that even 10% of the current protesters ever went to the summit for anything more than loading their truck with snow to bring back down to the beach. I went up there quite a lot in high school and really never saw crowds or a constant stream of people going up to worship.
Count me as generally favoring preservation of obvious native heritage sites, but I’d likewise grant the exception here for a celestial observatory run by the state university. If it were any sort of commercial development, it’d be an easy No.
Ironically, in my part of the world, many native tribes have embraced building casinos and related developments on their lands in the last maybe 5-10 years… Of course each nation is its own entity, but still it’s kinda funny to wrestle w/ the idea that at least some of them have little reservation about selling out whatever geographic heritage they can in pursuit of Western-style capitalism. Obviously there’s not uniform consistency in what I would/wouldn’t approve if it were up to me vs what they would(n’t) develop/preserve themselves.
Wasn’t there a somewhat similar uproar when one of the SW tribes built a tourist platform on the Grand Canyon rim that was also opposed by many both within and outside their community?
My wife and I toured up there about twenty years ago. At the time, there was a native shrine on the actual high point, about 400 meters off the road, and the telescopes were all built a little ways away from there. Looking at the google maps imagery it seems that is still the case. Most of the telescopes are remotely controlled and operated from the observatory center that is at 9000 feet altitude, a couple of miles away. The telescopes themselves are not open to the public.
My opinion is that it’s entirely possible to build another telescope or two there, away from the absolute peak, while still respecting the native culture and likely without encroaching on particularly sensitive locations (excepting that some activists will undoubtedly say “it’s ALL sensitive and ANY development is bad”). There are only so many places in the world where it is possible to get this good of a sky view, and Hawaii is unique in being in a relatively tropical climate.
The hypocrisy makes me laugh when I see natives complaining about the land then you drive down some of neighborhoods and more isolated areas and all you see are abandoned cars and washing machines. Maybe it’s the haoles.
I like the irony of the Hawaiian and Polynesian people sailing the entire Pacific Ocean navigating by the study of the stars yet their sons and daughters are protesting Celestial observation. Things that make you go Hmmm?
When I first moved to Hawaii we were hiking to Green Sands Beach just up the coast from Southpoint. A Hawaiian fisherman was on the beach with a bucket of crabs. I asked him why the crabs didn’t crawl out of the shallow bucket? He laughed and told me they were Hawaiian crabs, when one tries to crawl out of the bucket the others pulled him back in. I remembered that story for 25 years and saw the sadness of its truth demonstrated many many times.
