I’m training for my 6th marathon and am approaching it much differently than I have before. Rather than spending lots of time at the track doing speedwork (which was great for my 5k’s but never got me very far in the marathon) I’m doing a ton of long slow aerobic conditioning. I can already see the improvements in my long runs, recovery, and general mood. Much of the motivation for this is from the “hadd” article that I read several months ago.
Given that, I’m trying to gauge what is an appropriate heart rate for the marathon. I think my max is just over 200 (maybe 203-205). When I run what I believe to be threshold it’s around 180-183. When I run easy, it’s around 140-160.
My desired goal pace 7:15m/m is usually around 169-170, but this sounds a bit high to sustain through a whole marathon as it is around the 85% mark which most people consider threshold. Any thoughts? Could my previous marathoning background suggest the potential to run aerobically at 85%?
I have a strange heart rate range. My max is probably about 188. If I try to keep my heart rate down (under 130), I’m walking or very close to it. If I’m running at what for me is a decent training pace (8:00/mile), my heart rate is about 160. My PR time in a marathon (3:34) was done at a heart rate that ranged from 178 to 183. I think if I could somehow get my heart rate down, I could improve my speed. My 5K pace is about 7:15, and at the end, I’m at my max HR. I’ve worked on it, but haven’t had much success in lowering my HR while maintaining the same pace, or increasing the pace and maintaining the HR. Anyway, that’s another thread. I say - forget about your heart rate and run at the fastest pace you can maintain for 26.2.
I am old (59), so your mileage may vary. Using my Heart Rate Range (Max - Resting = HRR), I have run recent marathons at 75% and 85%. The 75% race was run at even splits (I was a pace team leader) of 8:45 minutes per mile for a 3:50 marathon. The 85% race was a 3:34 PR, not with even splits. So I guess the answer is: Yes, for some it is possible to run a marathon aerobically at 85% of HRR.
With a max of 200, and a threshold (10K I assume?) of 180, you could certainly see 170 in the latter third of a marathon. Training to do it is another matter.
My guess is that you would want to start some longer (90-105 minute) runs at marathon effort. Once you’ve got some base miles in you, you’ve got to start putting some pressure on your aerobic system at race-effort.
Up the ante on medium distance runs a little, and go 90 minutes at race pace every other week. (“Hadd” talks about this, and it’s at the core of Lydiard training). Start taking your pace from “long slow” to “strong”.
HR is not a good indicator to run a marathon for various reasons that any serious running book enumerates
What you should do is to use one of the tables available, I use Daniel’s, and project your marathon time based on recent performances at shorter distances (the longer the better). Then aim to mantain that pace throughout the marathon.
Also very helpful in marathon training is to run at marathon pace. In your last build, try to include one long run (max 2:30) and one marathon-pace run (max 20-25km) every other week.
As for anedoctal information, I ran a marathon recently and was able to mantain even pace until 37-38km. At the begining I was at the top of my easy aerobic range (140) and at the finish line I was 10bpm above my LTHR(172). I’m 32 and did a 2:59:48, now you know why the HR was so high at the finish
Factoring in aerobic drift, that should be possible, especially if you keep getting stronger as you train. Pre-knee surgeries, I ran four marathons in the 3:00-3:10 range, back when my MHR was about 197 and AT was about 172-74. Under cool conditions, I’d generally run at 155-160 for the first half, then drift up to 165-175 by the end. In 2 of the 4, I suffered a lot at the end, but then I never trained more than 30-35 hours/week at peak, so I probably didn’t have the base mileage I needed. Anyway, my body seemed to be running 10 bpm below yours, and things worked out in the end. I think you can hit your goals.
I presume you’re still doing aerobic intervals at least once/week, despite the switch to long/slow. That’s probably critical to maintaining speed and the ability to handle the occasional hills and spurts.
