Marathon vs. IM

Back in my less interesting days, when I was just a runner I used to run a lot of half-marathons. I wanted to do a marathon but I couldn’t imagine doing 2 half-marathons, back to back. Once I learned to train for a marathon vs. a half, “I got it”, and running a marathon is an easy thing to get through - given you train correctly.

Cut to the present. My favorite tri distance in the 1/2 IM. I have done 9 half IM’s so far. I am signed up for the Vineman IM in August. Right now I can’t imagine doing 2 back to back 1/2 IM’s. I am whipped after a 1/2.

Is the concept the same for an IM? You train totaly different, pace yourself a little slower and if you trained correctly, it is a fun day (as is a marathon)?

I have loaded the 13 weeks to a sub 13 hour IM into my training schedule and I inend to follow it. I think I just need a little mental encouragement.

Help.

I just finished Ralphs and am signed up for my first full at MOO. I had the same idea about the difference between half and full marathons: it seemed impossible to go another 13.1 miles, until I did a bunch of marathons. I hope that the same principle applies to half v full ironman. Right now, those distances are very intimidating to me.

don’t look at it from that perspective. An IM is only equal to two 1/2 when you add up the distances. If you are trying to perform to your best, there is no way that you are racing the two races at the same intensity. So it’s a waste of your time to worry about how difficult it will be to do another one once you completed the 1/2 IM. Look at it for what it is - two different races.

So you are whipped at the end of a 1/2IM. Congrats, that means you tried hard and did your best. Do your training, think + and concentrate on the nutrition during the race. If you bonk after 4hrs during a 1/2IM it certainly sucks, but you sure don’t want to run out of energy half way through your ride during an IM. So nutrition is a big factor!!!

Don’t worry, there are people out there that trained much less than you and finished an IM. It’s all in your mind. Have fun with it and good luck!

daniel

Yes, I think it’s the same.

Before my first marathon, a friend told me, “If you can run 45 minutes, you can run a marathon.” I thought he was crazy. But now I think it’s true - once you reach a certain endurance level mentally/physically, you can get yourself through pretty much any distance as long as your brain can prep you properly and you’re not injured.

I didn’t think my first IM was really more difficult than my first 1/2 IM. But I’m slow…if you’re looking to place, it might be a whole different ballgame.

Thanks Irongeek, Swiss & Glider for the info.

Over the 1/2 IM distance I consume like 6-8 gels, 3 bottles of gpush & 2 clif bars. For a full IM would it be a good idea to stick with that, but double? Is real food better to consume than gels. I can only take so much gels til I need some real food.

Thoughts?

I would guess you will want more than double because of the effort, but I don’t have the stats to back that.

I take a variety of stuff with me because I don’t want something to sound bad to me during the race and keep me from eating - have heard horror stories of people who trained with a particular type of gel but then couldn’t stomach that gel on race day. This will probably make people laugh, but between what I carry in my bike jersey and in my special needs bags, I have: pretzels or Pringles (salty sounds so good on the run), fig newtons, a pop tart, pb&j sandwich, snickers, lemon drops or something to suck during the run, geez, a ton of stuff in addition to bars and gels. I don’t eat all of them of course, but whatever sounds good at the moment, and then toss the rest. Not the most economical, but sometimes my stomach turns at the thought of another gel or bar.

Sounds like a guy I train with sometimes. I always ask him if he remembered the blanket, because I did not know we were going on a picnic. He never eats the same thing when he rides/runs with me. So it works great for him.

let’s say you are a 1:25 half marathoner, which kind of equates to 3 hour marathon ability. Basically these two races largely use similar energy systems one with a slightly lower intensity than another. Either way, you start both after breakfast and finish both long before lunch time.

Now say you are a 5 hour half Ironman guy, so logic might suggest that you have the capability of going 11 hours. Problem is that a half Ironman is still done between breakfast and lunch. You can largely survive this race on “last night’s pasta” plus a bar, 3 gels and 4 bottles of gatorade. Pretty easy to digest. In fact, the energy systems used in a half Ironman are very similar to marathon. You can “hammer all the way”.

Now let’s talk about the 11 hour Ironman. First of all, you eat breakfast at 5 am and even if you were doing nothing on that day, you’d need to eat lunch well before noon and even if you were doing nothing on the same day, you need to eat supper early, but hopefully after 6 pm when you would finish your Ironman (assuming a 7 am start). So to paraphrase things, the others are truly races. Ironman is a swim-bike-run-eat event. Somehow you gotta get 300-600 calories per hour in your body to keep going without bonking. This is not an event you can survive on “last night’s pasta”. To top it off, you have to balance your electrolytes (Na and K) or cramp badly at some point or become hyponatremic.

To put it into perspective, 300 calories per hour is a bar and a bottle of gatorade, or 3 gels and a gatorade, so at the low end of the scale, for 11 hours you need 33 gels and 11 bottle of Gatorade, not including any additional hydration liquid. For the 600 cal per hour plan, 66 plus 22. Now that looks pretty tough to ingest without slowing down, barfing, or just plain giving up and trying to do on a deficit (i.e. bonk)

I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but just trying to alert you to the fast that half marathon, marathon and half Ironman are all races and use the same energy systems. Ironman is an event about the guy who can slow down the least and manage nutrition well. Make sure you plan and execute on that aspect of your Ironman and you will do great. The Ironman training is easy. Everyone shows up to the race well trained, but very very very few (myself included) can execute well on race day. Most inadequate performances can be directly related to poor nutritional execution rather than fitness, even pacing or improper taper.

Mark Allen described it best, “Treat the entire swim, bike and first half marathon as a long training day. Don’t even get tempted to race. If you feel great, the real RACE starts 13.1 miles into the run”. Personally, I consider the 2.4-112-13.1 miles as the first HALF of the race. The final 13.1 miles is the last HALF of the race. Save your energy (mainly emotional and psychological) for the final 13.1 and you will have a great experience.

Devashish Paul - You are the man!

Thanks for the great info! You painted a picture really well.

hey man, I have many poor Ironman races from which I should have learned by now. The least I can do is pass things on to others. Just remember that you need to eat lunch and dinner on the fly to make it in without a meltdown :slight_smile: