So I just finished IM Louisville 10 days ago. I PR’ed with a 10:55 and actually felt relatively OK after the race (Did I have more to give?). Post race I had about 2 days of light soreness in my legs and then just felt a general whole body fatigue through to this last weekend. That being said I’m now feeling great and am getting ready to try and qualify for Boston at the Marine Corp Marathon in about 7 weeks.
My question is this…
How would you build upon your Ironman fitness in order to peak again and run a fast marathon? Should I pick right back up with the long runs of 2-3.5 hours or start over again at say 1.25 hours and build up to a peak long run about 2 weeks out from the race? At what point would you start to incorporate speed work/hills again? Does it sound crazy to treat an Ironman as a long training session and then build on it?
By the way, my marathon split in the IM was 3:54 but I walked every aid station for between 30sec-1min and also walked about 1/2mile with a side stitch (neither of which I hope to do in DC). My 10K time is currently around 38min and I need to run 3:10 to qualify for Boston.
Thanks in advance!
I’d go with the second option, starting out with a 90-minute run and then build back to your last long run about two weeks out since you’ll still need some recovery time from IM and that could be compromised by jumping right back into the 2.5-hour runs. I took this approach two years ago when I did the Cape Cod Marathon 7 weeks after IMWI and qualified for Boston.
Hope this helps, good luck!
I am trying the same after having run a 100 miler last month and my race is end of october…so this is a work in progress…what I did was give myself a couple of weeks to recover (one week no running, just swim) then slowly got mileage back to around 50mpw…then started speedwork last week (once I got mileage back to 50mpw) Let’s hope it works.
It is tempting to jump back into things when you feel good post race, but I have found that sometimes I ‘crash’ a couple of weeks later if I get back into full training so quickly. It took me an entire month to feel good again. Also watch your recovery during this time ie. get enough sleep, eat well, and massages, etc.
good luck
Option two. I assume this was your first IM, yes? The reason I say this is because the real fatigue is yet to come. Usually about 2-3 weeks after an IM you realize that your actually pretty tired and need some down time. It is normal to feel pretty good up to that point.
IMHO- you are probably not going to be able to peak for the USMC marathon. That doesn’t mean you can’t have a great time and qualify. I just think it is going to hurt a bit and not be your best race. I ran the TCM a few times after doing IMWI and was always suprised how much it hurt, and how tired I was. That is about 4 or 5 weeks apart. It was all I could do to finish under 4:00 even though I had a previous PR of 3:07. Just my $0.02, YMMV. Good luck!
I have had some experience with this - trying to run a good marathon off of IM fitness. It’s harder than you think. Intunitivly you would think - no problem. If I can run well in an IM a standalone marathon should be straight forward. However, think about the paces that you have been running at and then racing at in your IM. My guess is that you have been doing a lot of running at 8:30 -9:00 min/mile pace and your IM race pace was about 8:50 min/mile. However, your standalone marathon goal pace for a 3:10 marathon is just over 7:00 min/mile or 1.5 to 2 minutes faster than what you have been doing most of your running at. The mechanics and physiology of running that much faster is VERY different.
Now the knee-jerk reaction is to head back out and start building up the base miles again, but if you have just done an IM you already have GREAT BASE. What you need to do is focus on getting in miles at your marathon goal pace - in this case something around 7:00 min/mile. My suggestion would be to start to add in marathon race pace runs of up to 10 - 15 miles( building up to that) and also harder interval based training with repeats of from 800m to 2 miles at what would be roughly your 5K race pace or slighly faster. What you need to do, however you do it, is get as efficient as you can knocking out those 7:00 min miles.
VERY good post Fleck! And to the OP - I agree exactly! There is a very big diff between your 9 min/mile IM pace and the 7 min mile pace you need to hold to BQ.
I will GUARANTEE that your legs will hurt much more after a BQ marathon attempt than after an IM 
Good luck!
Several people provided great…Fleck in particular.
For the record, I’ve done 5 IM’s and followed 3 of them with a marathon. Number 4 will be this October - IMC & Twin Cities Marathon. These 3 marathons are my best times (3:15) and I used them to qualify for Boston. I always take one week of complete rest before running again. Keep the “long” runs to a minimum. My long runs start this weekend and they will probably be 14, 16, 14, 10, marathon. Replace distance with tempo (10 miles of pace during a 14 mile workout is better than slogging around for 20 miles). I also think it’s a good idea to keep biking and swimming. Use them as active recovery workouts.
Last year I felt great after IMC and jumped into a fall training program. Too bad the Chicago wasn’t 2 weeks earlier. I started falling apart just before the race. Lesson: I started too fast. Ease back into it. You are on borrowed time and your body is going to shut down sooner or later. Motivation, rest, and control will determine the outcome. You can do it. Good luck.
Thanks you all so much for the great advice!
From what I’m hearing it sounds like my thinking is nearly on track with what you have said. I agree that the key to my qualifying is going to be increasing my sustainable speed. Despite feeling OK after the IM, I took this last week nearly completely off, only bike commuting to work a couple days and one easy swim session. I did my first run last Sunday at an easy pace and it felt fine. I think the two massages I got post race helped tremendously with my recovery although I’m sure that I still have a ways to go. This week has also been light with a 40 minute run last night, a couple short swim sessions, and a short bike or two. I was going to start increasing the mileage back up and getting into a structured plan starting next week.
I think my planned key workouts will be a steadily building long run up to 3 hours peaking 2 weeks out from race day, a weekly track workout (800’s, 1 mile repeats) or hill workout, and a mid-week pace run where I work on developing the muscular endurance to maintain ~7:00 pace, and I’ll also probably still have an easy jog/hash run day and a couple swims and bike rides. Building up to the ironman I was able to run 7:30 pace for up to 2 hours and still keep my heart rate and effort moderately aerobic (i.e. sustainable) so I think I’ll be able to hurt through it come race day. I may not be the fastest runner but I sure can suffer with the best of them!
Wish me luck and I’ll let you know how it goes!
The only thing that I would question is the need to go out for a 3 hour run at this stage - there realy is no need for this and you will be just beating yourself up and continuing to reinforce that slower paced running. I would sub in more tempo running close to marathon goal race pace or some 10K races or a 1/2 marathon race. Remember, it’s bout being smooth, comfortable and efficient for as long as you can at your goal marathon pace - which for you is just about 7:05 min/mile.
thanks Fleck, I am really rethinking my plan now…sorry to jump on your thread, but after the 100 what I did was recover then start marathon training program the requisite number of weeks out…so I am thinking maybe shorten the longer runs and do at marathon pace? There is a ten miler coming up the week Im supposed to do a 20 miler, I think racing the ten would be a better idea?
Steve,
That makes sense. I guess you’re right that I already have the endurance to go the distance and that increasing pace over a longer distance is the goal. How long does it take for you to detrain your ability to go the distance when your not doing any runs longer than say 2 hours or so (i.e. 7min/miles for 16-18 miles at peak)? Would it be beneficial to do a 3+ hour bike once a week to maintain this part of your fitness? This is exactly why I asked for advice as I’m so brainwashed from IM training to focus on developing my endurance engine. This will be my first stand alone marathon and LOU was my 3rd IM.
Also, I was reading a good article from Joel Friel called The Fast Marathoner and he suggested breaking the marathon down into sections run at different paces. My goal pace would follow something like this…
Goal Time- 3:10:00
Avg. Pace- 7:15/mile
Miles 1 to 3- 7:27
Miles 4 to 20- 7:07
Miles 20 to 26.2- 7:29
This allows a slightly lighter warm up, key pace miles, and a slight fade. Any thoughts?