I’ll be running the Marine Corps Marathon at the end of November and really want to qualify for Boston (3:40), I’ve run one other marathon and did that in 3:54 on about 25-28 miles a week. This time around I’m up to about 35-40 miles a week. In my first marathon the first half I did in 1:52 and did the second in 2:02…is this typical? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Marine Corps will be marathon #8 for me, and my best times have come when I do an even split. Some people say a negative split is ideal, but I just can’t seem to swing that. It can also depend on the course. My most recent marathon was a 3:06, and I ran a 1:30 for the first 13.1, but the second half of the course was more difficult. I think in general, and given a relatively even course, the better your fitness the more even your split will be (i.e. you will slow down less in those final miles). Bear in mind that Marine Corps has a bit of a hill at the end, so that may add some time to your second half split.
One thing I like to do to gauge my fitness is do a half-marathon a few weeks out (I’m doing mine on Oct. 3). I double my time and add ten minutes, and tell myself that this should be the neighborhood of my final marathon time. This has been a pretty good predictor +/- 2-3 minutes.
Good luck!
Marine Corps is at the end of OCTOBER, not November! 
It’ll be my first marathon. Just looking to finish without walking.
How long ago was the 3:54 marathon. typically, making a 15 minute improvemtn on successive marathons is well within the do-able range. But if the 3:54 was last year sometime and you haven’t maintained the fiteness level and milage after a good recovery fron the 3:54. then the road might be a bit tougher, no alot but some.
How fast did you go out in the opening miles of your 1st race?
Jim
Yasso 800’s have worked really well for me as both a predictor as well a training strategy for marathons. Work up to 8 x 800, completing each 800 in the time you want to finish the marathon. For instance, if your goal marathon time is 3:30 (3 hours 30 minutes) , complete each 800 in 3:30 (3 minutes 30 seconds). If your goal is 3:15, complete each 800 in 3:15. I do Yasso’s once a week when marathon training. It’s really worked for me. I start them next week to prepare for the Phila marathon.
I’ve done a lot of marathon racing. My suggestion for pacing a marathon is pretty straightforward. Run the first 10-12 miles very easy. This is easily the most imortant component to running well. The first 1-2 miles can be up to a minute slower than goal pace. Most people don’t do this and suffer significantly later for it. The important thing is that you should not feel like you are racing during this time. This is as much mental as physical. At 10-12 miles, get into a steady working pace. This doesn’t mean you need to pick the pace up a lot, but, there should definitely be a change into a racing mentality. I have found that it is much easier to focus on your race for 10-15 miles than it is for 26. I try to focus on working hard to mile 22. Of course, after 22 miles it will always be hard work. But now you can focus on getting to the finish line. If things are going well, you can maintain the same pace or even increase. If not, 4 miles is a short enough distance to stuggle through and finish without losing too much time.
Good luck with your race.
yasso 8’s worked for you? i tried it… i was doing mine in 2:50. ended up finishing my mary in 3:50.
i think they backfired.
I’ve done the Marine Corp Marathon for 8 years in a row now. I can tell you that its not the best marathon to qualify for Boston with but many still do. I qualified for Boston at Pacific Shoreline Marathon in Huntington Beach (Surf City USA).
As for MCM they are including Haines Point again this year which is a little flatter than the other route. I would reccommend that you plan on not negative spilting the coarse because of the up hill at the end and the bridge over potomac is a long up hill (half way that is).
Otherwise good luck. I love the MCM. Its a wonderful event and all the hoopla that surrounds it is great too.
I’ve lived in DC for 5 years and have been fortunate enough to run most of the course many many times-Dc is not flat so I’m hoping years of running these hills will be a strenghth for me. Thanks for all of the advice!
No, it’s not typical. Many people go out much too fast, and then crash at the end. If the course is relatively consistent, the closer you are to even splits, the better you are pacing yourself. In my best marathons, the second half was five minutes slower than the first. Being ten minutes slower is not that bad, but you would probably do a little better if you paced it better. Of course, you usually don’t find out if you have gone out too quickly until at least mile 18, and then it’s far too late to do anything about it.
Good luck. The marathon is an incredibly rewarding and incredibly frustrating race.
“Run the first 10-12 miles very easy. This is easily the most imortant component to running well. The first 1-2 miles can be up to a minute slower than goal pace.”
I did exactly that in my last marathon and I had a negative split. It felt wierd not running harder at the beginning, but it paid off in the end. I was using this marathon as a training run for another marathon and ended up with a PR. My fastest miles were from 13-21, then I hung on for the next several and finished the last mile strong. It went so well I wasn’t even sore after the race.
Don
Instead of focusing only on 1/2 split, break it up by either 10Ks (:52,1:44,2:36 - last 12.2K in 1:02 for a 3:38), or by 10miles (10mile - 1:23, 20mile - 2:46, last 10K in :52 for a 3:38). I prefer the 10mile splits. You can, and should, look at your watch as you pass the half just to give you confidence that you are on track (sub-1:49).
Eat a gu 5mins b/f start and take another in between 13-15miles, and drink water&gatorade at each station - don’t skip a station.
I run ( 6 to 10 miles) on the coarse almost every day since my office is next to the capitol.
As for the water stations they can really clog up. MCM is a crowded marathon, another issue to consider when trying to qualify there. I would recommend getting as close to the front of the start as possible.
For a 3:52 marathoner, a 1:52 2:02 split is not terrible, but the more even your pace the better off you will be. You can always push harder (slow down less) if you start easy. Start fast and you better hope you have the fitness to back it up or else you will be walking at the end.
Last year I grossly overestimated my fitness at Marine Corps and died running into the wind on the 14th street Bridge. I would recommend you run a half marathon to get an idea of what you are capable of for the race. Use the double time + 10-15 minutes rule. This only applies though, if you have the long runs up to 18-20 miles. I am convinced that you have to approach 20 miles, whatever your pace, in training or it will be very hard to hold on for 26. Your body can only do so much on race day.
If you absolutely want to qualify for Boston then you should aim at running the first half in about 1:45. That will give you some fudge factor as you slow down at the end. Running a negative split is extremely difficult unless you go really easy to begin with, or you run hard at the end of all your long runs.
The new course this year does not run all the way up to the top of the hill and around down to the finish like in past years. Once you turn off the main road it will turn onto the grass and finish. (My good friend is the operations officer and made up the course.) There also will not be that big hill at mile 3. The start will also face west and not east.
Chad
P.S. One other thing. The weather at Marine Corps is very unpredictable, so you need to go with pacing plans A, B, and C. A is perfect cool weather, low humidity, no wind. B is a little warm, a little humid or gusty. C is the hot and humid cooker that requires you to survive the day. If you have to go to plan C and you still really want to qualify, then run the first 15-20 miles at training run pace, drop out or walk to the end and then try again in two weeks at Richmond.
Chad,
thats good news about the finish.