I am signed up to do IMAZ 2012 which is in November. I am considering training for a late April marathon but not sure if I should just focus on strength this winter instead. I was planning on starting IM training the beginning of June for a 24 week plan. I have done 2 marathons before, but haven’t done one since April 2010 and it was a terrible race for me. Since then I have done 2 half IM and 3 half marathons. I am a decent runner, but not super fast and have been dealing with some knee issues recently, to which I am working on my strength for. I would say that my weak link is probably the bike and my strongest is the swim, with running being average. I am trying to get a feel of whether training for a marathon is smart or whether I should stick with strength and base-work for IMAZ. If I did train for a marathon I was planning on following the Run Less, Run Faster program which is 3 quality runs a week, mostly speedwork, with 2 days of x-training. I am considering trying to BQ if I do decide to run the marathon. What do you think? Any advice?
I think it depends on the rest of your season. If you need a spring goal, great make the marathon that goal. If you’re racing other distance tri’s, then it’s a decision about whether training for a marathon will impact those races. If swimming is your strongest, then you can focus on biking and running in the Spring. A normal base phase is about 6 weeks, so that would start in mid-May for IMAZ.
Def. skip the marathon!! It will only hinder your season and your knee is already hurting. You’ve done marathons before. You said the bike was a weakness? Trade in run miles for bike fitness. Instead, build a massive bike engine for the IM. Then, don’t use it on race day…
A marathon with running focus before an IM – particularly several months before an IM It is perfectly fine. While you are training for the marathon, just keep in at least 1 bike and 1 swim a week. After the marathon, you have at least month where you can bike and swim like crazy with minimal running. Then restore some balance and train for the IM
If you want to run a fast marathon, a program consisting of 3 quality runs a week is a*** really bad idea***. The marathon is not something you throw speedwork at. It is an event that rewards ***volume ***and consistency. like no other. It is far, far better to to do 6 or 7 or 8 easy runs a week than 3 quality ones. At least when you have a marathon focus. Search this forum for any post by BarryP. In his signature you’ll find a link to his program for improving your running. That’s a good start. Take a look at the testimonials of anyone who has done Dev’s 100/100 challenge. They didn’t improve their running by going hard 3 days out of 7 and then no running the rest of the week. They improved it by getting out there day after day after day. It’s not sexy but it works.
Treat the marathon buildup as your running base building. Throw as many miles as you can at the problem without getting hurt or tired of running. For your quality, practice marathon pace or do some tempo work. Look forward to the post marathon period for a cycling/swimming focus.
Are you really concerned about the impact training for and racing a marathon 6 months before an IM will have? Go for it! I did a 50K ultra 3 weeks before IM Australia in 2010, and have done two 70.3s on back-to-back weekends, as well as IM and 70.3 on back-to-back weekends. I do this for fun, not to try to win the race, so figure out what your goal is and give it a crack.
I would say that it depends on why you are doing the marathon. if it is a goal in itself, then fine do it. But if you are doing it to aid your IM, then I would say don’t bother especially if you are having knee issues. I agree with Gurudriver 10 that your time would be better spent on your weakness of the bike. If you want a goal, maybe choose a bike sportive or a half marathon, but not a marathon.
In my experience, a stand alone marathon is nothing like an IM marathon and so not a benefit as part of your IM training, as racing a marathon fresh is not the same as running an IM marathon after a swim and bike.
Interesting you provide lots of information about your marathon and half marathon experience, but none about your triathlon and ironman experience. What is your triathlon and ironman experience? All we know is that your biking is weak.
Without knowing any more about your triathlon background, I’d say skip the marathon and put in some serious work on the bike. Off season is the time to work on the weakest link, particularly if your target race is an ironman.
definitely skip the marathon and focus on the bike…your Ironman marathon will definitely get much faster from training on the bike than the run, since your already a runner. doesnt matter how well you can run a marathon fresh if your legs are shot when you start…
For what it’s worth, I’ve had my best marathon results after I’ve completed an Ironman as opposed to the way that you are pondering. I use my Ironman fitness as a base for my marathon trainning. After the Ironman, I would take a couple of weeks off to recover and then start on my marathon specific trainning. If you are trying to get a BQ and a good Ironman finish, this might be a better way to go.
Also, as someone already stated, unless you are just a stud at running, running 3x per week to get a BQ is quite difficult for most mortals. I’m sure there are folks who will come on board and say that they can do it on 1-2x runs per week, but it’s not the case for most of us.
This is sort of an age old ST Q. The answer is, it depends.
If your goal is IM racing, do not run/race a marathon. Too much time devoted to run, too great a chance for injury, recovery interferes with training. There is a reason why pro IM athletes generally do not run marathons…it simply doesn’t help IM training/racing. If your goal is to do your best at IM AZ then skip the marathon.
However, if your main goal is Boston then basically put IM training on the back burner, train for the marathon, and go for it in April! Nothing wrong with that at all.
It is really a matter of personal choice and priority - only you can decide that.
I would skip the Run Less, Run Faster program. I tried it with one of my marathons and had terrible results. Other people I know that have done it also had bad results. Like people have said I don’t think it provides a big enough volume base to effectively race a marathon. It will get you to complete a marathon but not race one, especially to BQ.
I really think it is personal preference on racing a marathon before an IM. FWIW I’m doing Myrtle Beach in Feb before starting my IMWiscy training since it is a race goal in 2012 of mine to go sub 2:50 in the marathon. Like people have said, it is all about personal goals and preferences.
I’d be real careful about it though if you are already having knee problems. Smart Coach on Runner’s World has a good free training program. Provides a nice mix of volume and long tempo work.
Maybe buddy won’t train specifically for his marathon…Maybe he will continue to do his tri training and just run the marathon to see how fast he can go…There is nothing wrong with that if that is what he wants to do.He 'aint a pro and he hasn’t told us if he is trying to KQ so if he wants to try and run a Mary then go run the flamin Mary!!Here at ST there seems to be an " all in or all out " mentality where people focus on one race so much that they need to give up everything else or they are thrown into the " you aren’t taking this shit seriously" category.
One year I did a deca olympic race(came second) and the a couple of months later trotted into the finish line in IMOZ in 10:30 ish.I then went to Penticton, won Ultraman Canada and then did Ironman Canada four weeks later in 10:30 ish.Maybe I could have gone faster in the two Ironmans but really who gives a toss.We aren’t getting paid for this stuff…It is a hobby!
I 100% agree. As I said it is a personal choice for what you want to do. Lots of personal and unique facters - personal goals, family contraints, work, athletic history/ability, athletic goals, lifestyle, etc.
I also agree you don’t have to be “all in or out.” However, you do have to be honest on what you want to accomplish and how to get there. If you want BQ, or KQ, then it requires you to prioritize. Further, many folks confuse wanting to do a marathon (which is certainly fine) with “doing a marathon will help my IM,” which it won’t.
Personally, I am happy most of the time being an athletic “jack of of all trades, master on none” because, exactly as you point out it is just a hobby/lifestyle. However, if there is a specific goal to ramp up for like BQ (assuming it is a stretch to get there), or doing your best IM then then you have choices to make.
Stay fit and healthy - perhaps that is the best goal!
my wife and i had this discussion a few races back. a TRUE* endurance athlete can bust out a good result after a day at the amusement park with the family. and then the next day take the same family on a long hike or something else. basically an endurance athlete is someone that doesn’t let their ‘race’ dictate their life. an endurance athlete enjoys a beer (or several) before/during/after any racing/training/recovery.
at least that’s how it is in MY house.
*ok that’s more a definition of a TRUE Tim Andrus… but i think it still holds merit here.
Yes I’ll grant you that,if I wanted to KQ I’d have to re-arrange my training which means I’d actually have to do some “proper training”… As Dev always points out though,I have been doing this for more than 25 years with a schoolboy athletic background so adaptation comes a little easier for those of us to whom this is second nature…
I will say that I do have the utmost respect for those who come into this sport later in life from a non-athletic background.I have several friends who have done Ironmans from that starting point and it was hard for them.The fact that it is " easier " for me does not go un-noticed.
I have done 3 Half IMs, multiple sprint and olympic distances.
most recently I did Racine and finished 17th out of 90ish in my age group. My swim was 38 min, bike 2:57, run 2:01. These were all PR’s for me in the half.
I guess what I am struggiling with is that I like the run portion and I do not like to bike so I don’t really want to spend my entire off season training for the bike, but I think its probably my weakest link overall, however my run was not as great as I had hoped and I think I have some improvement on both the run and the bike.