What do you think of this? Will this kill me? I’m pretty sure that most of you will say to not do this, but for the ones who have done this, what was the impact on your IM?
I suppose it comes down to what you’re looking for in each race.
Last year, I did Boston and IMCDA. It worked out fine since I was looking for a strong Boston race (got it, a PR) but CDA was just about dipping my toe in Ironman.
This year I’d like to go much faster at CDA, so I’m skipping Boston. I just don’t want that big hole blown in my triathlon training.
Pete
Portland, OR
This question comes up every now and again. The answer is always no.
Racing a marathon, unless you are one of a very rare breed, will risk injury and at a minimum wil require you 3-4 weeks of recovery. Its just not worth the risk.
No way. You marathon “recovery” would be right in the sweet spot of your big IM training. And yes, I’ve done it (Boston then IMLou)
Although it is probably not the best thing to do, it’s really depending on you as a person and your goals! Can you do it, absolutely if there are no injuries or tormenting stress that has occurred and also as long as your goals are fairly modest. Just be very careful, recovering will be your best friend in-between.
This question comes up every now and again. The answer is always no.
I don’t believe in absolutes. Everyone’s different. The answer most certainly is NOT always no. I wouldn’t tell anyone “The answer is always no”. You might be able to cite examples of diminished performances due to a marathon 8 weeks out, but I could cite just as many positive cases.
Gosh, some people even do IM’s on consecutive weekends. Seems to me Chris McDonald did IMLOU, and the next weekend won IMWI. People who do IMC and qualify have only 5 to 7 weeks to race Kona. And you know what, some of those people even PR at Kona!
Here’s my race schedule prior to IMC this year, and I agree by ST standards it’s all wrong, plus my saddle is too high:
8 weeks out . . . . 50k trail run
5 weeks out . . . . 70.3
4 weeks out . . . . 1/2 marathon
3 weeks out . . . . 1/2 marathon
2 weeks out . . . . 70.3
I’ll post back to let you know how all this running negatively affected my performance at IMC.
How about a marathon 4 weeks after an Ironman (both would be a first)?
Sure, go ahead. You’ll probably end up walking the IM at mile 18 anyway since it’s your first.
x2
although i think you schedule is rather err… busy!
but then again, you haven’t said what you aims are so many of the races could be dress rehearsals etc… (although i for one am unable to treat any race as a rehearsal!)
i have two young children… hang on… that will affect my IM performance. damn… better file for the divorce and let my wife have 100% custody
i have a job… hang on… that will affect…
i like beer… hang on…
i like battlestar galactica but my wife doesn’t… eh?!! - yep, there is a connection. because of this i watch record episodes late at night which reduces my sleep time
to the OP… it sounds as though you have decided to do it and are only after advice?
so…
-focus on the swim and bike training after the marathon while recovering
-think of the post marathon recovery as a period to repair and revitalise you for the ironman ahead… as triathletes we like to over do things, and often a period of forced recovery can be a blessing in disguise.
-learn from your marathon. i know they are different races, but for most of us they are still some of the longest races we do.
-think carefully about what you are after… if you accept that you may not get a perfect race in both, ask yourself which is the most important and what are your goals. just becuase this is a triathlon forum doesn’t mean that the marathon is not your focus (i have a similar schedule - though not so tight - and for me the priority is the marathon. but that doesn’t mean i am not going for a fantastic IM!.. hmm… but if i am honest, the biggest priority is some more weightloss… and that doesn’t mix so well with optimal IM training - but then again, i am not an optimal IM shape!)
-enjoy! THE biggest thing.
How about a marathon 4 weeks after an Ironman (both would be a first)?
Your first 26.2 will actually be the IM marathon? In that case, I might caution against it. 4 weeks, for most people, isn’t enough time to recover. I’m assuming, since this is your first IM and your first marathon, that you just don’t have the base (years of endurance training) to pull this off without either: walking alot, risking injury, or not enjoying it.
There are build phases in training, and recovery phases. I think running your first marathon just 4 weeks after your first IM would compromise your recovery.
I used to run a marathon that was 5 weeks after IMC, and would struggle. Last year the same marathon was 6 weeks after IMC, and I found that extra week made all the difference (for me).
**What do you think of this? Will this kill me? I’m pretty sure that most of you will say to not do this, but for the ones who have done this, what was the impact on your IM? **
This always comes up and the answer is always, why would you do this?
There are marathons almost every week of the year so why would you bother when you have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
You are purposefully trying to sabotage your IM.
For what it’s worth, IM followed by marathon is easier to pull off than marathon followed by IM. Hard to believe for somebody who hasn’t done it yet (OP) but recovering from a marathon takes a lot more time than recovering from an IM.
Neither is optimal but the alternative is to postpone one of the races 6-12 months…
Alex
I don’t believe in absolutes. Everyone’s different. The answer most certainly is NOT always no. I wouldn’t tell anyone “The answer is always no”. You might be able to cite examples of diminished performances due to a marathon 8 weeks out, but I could cite just as many positive cases.
Gosh, some people even do IM’s on consecutive weekends. Seems to me Chris McDonald did IMLOU, and the next weekend won IMWI. People who do IMC and qualify have only 5 to 7 weeks to race Kona. And you know what, some of those people even PR at Kona!
You are right - everyone’s different. However, have you ever thought of extending that everyones-different thought process to recovery and durability. The people you see doing “well” with this are in my view, recovery freaks!! These people are the exception. It’s most often people who have been training for years, are very durable and recovery from over-extended training and racing extraordinarily fast - much faster than “normal”. Do you think that because Joe Bonness can race three IM’s at a high level in the space of a month and a half that everyone can do that?
Here’s the facts: If you surveyed the top 10 triathlon coaches in the world, and asked them if a MOP AG Triathlete should run a marathon 8 weeks out from an IM, I am almost absolutly sure that all 10 would say, “No”.
As always, your mileage may vary! 
Depends on what you priorities are. If doing well at the marathon is your priority then sure, why not? If doing well at the IM is your priority and you want to kill the marathon, then no not a great idea. If you take the marathon as a long training run and don’t let it negatively affect your swimming and biking, you’ll be fine.
FWIW- I’m doing Boston, as well as the Frederick Marathons before IMLP this year and taking them as training.
As no-good said above, there are no absolutes. And, besides, all of this is supposed to be fun. If you’re not having fun, what’s the point, right?
Bob
As no-good said above, there are no absolutes. And, besides, all of this is supposed to be fun. If you’re not having fun, what’s the point, right?
Bob’s right. There are no absolutes.
From a performance and physiological perspective, the answer is, “No”. Note, I always assume that this is the perspective that people are taking. So I may be wrong in this regard, but I will still stand my ground because that is backed up by facts.
Now if you really don’t care about the marathon or the IM performance and it truley is all about fun, then go nuts - do them both and have a blast.
I know a guy who’s run a marathon on Saturday and a marathon on Sunday and qualified for Boston in both. He’s not posting on ST for advice.
If he needs to ask the question, then the answer is no. If he wants to take a gamble, roll the dice, and see if he has Dean Karnazes’ talent for recovery, then he can go ahead and give it a shot, but I’ll be betting against him.
And no, there are not just as many cases of people improving their performance racing a marathon 8 weeks out. Not even close.
I don’t believe in absolutes. Everyone’s different. The answer most certainly is NOT always no. I wouldn’t tell anyone “The answer is always no”. You might be able to cite examples of diminished performances due to a marathon 8 weeks out, but I could cite just as many positive cases.
Gosh, some people even do IM’s on consecutive weekends. Seems to me Chris McDonald did IMLOU, and the next weekend won IMWI. People who do IMC and qualify have only 5 to 7 weeks to race Kona. And you know what, some of those people even PR at Kona!
Here’s my race schedule prior to IMC this year, and I agree by ST standards it’s all wrong, plus my saddle is too high:
8 weeks out . . . . 50k trail run
5 weeks out . . . . 70.3
4 weeks out . . . . 1/2 marathon
3 weeks out . . . . 1/2 marathon
2 weeks out . . . . 70.3
I’ll post back to let you know how all this running negatively affected my performance at IMC.
Hmmm…this is a very interesting thread to me. Here is my schedule:
3-29 ING Georgia Marathon
5-2 Wildflower 1/2
5-31 IM Brazil (first IM)
So according to the posters, I am crazy. Maybe. Probably. BUT, I am treating both the marathon and the 1/2 as long training days, NOT races. I am not going out there to push myself to my limit, just put in a little work and finish. My marathon will probably be 4:00 flat, my 1/2 maybe a bit over 6 hours, and then whatever the IM is, the IM is…
Reasonable or unreasonable? I suppose I could switch my registration for the marathon to the 1/2 marathon…??
Reasonable or unreasonable? I suppose I could switch my registration for the marathon to the 1/2 marathon…??
I am serious about this. It’s something to consider. Why? You will get more *real *fitness gains from running a 1/2 marathon as fast as you can, then from just running a marathon “easy”. You’ll actually get even more fitness gains from going all-out for 10K to 15K - now, that is the best distance for most MOP triathletes to do running races at - something that is going to put them right at the edge for 40 minutes to an hour. That’s where you start to move the key fitness parameter for endurance performance your LT.
Now again, my assumption is always that you want to improve your performance at the IM.
I was just talking with one of the very best triathlon coaches in the world yesterday about this very subject and he was saying that, many people focussing on a great IM race, race too long( other IM’s and marathons) in the run-up to the goal IM and neglect racing shorter( 10K runs, sprint and Olympc distance triathlons). Of course, people are free to do whatever they want.
If he needs to ask the question, then the answer is no. If he wants to take a gamble, roll the dice, and see if he has Dean Karnazes’ talent for recovery, then he can go ahead and give it a shot, but I’ll be betting against him.
Barry,
This has always struck me as odd. Where and how did so many people get the idea, that they have the recovery talent of Dean Karnazes or Joe Bonness? It amazes me that so many people think that what these guys do is, normal and that the same thing applies to them. Strange.
3-29 ING Georgia Marathon
5-2 Wildflower 1/2
5-31 IM Brazil (first IM)
I am treating both the marathon and the 1/2 as long training days, NOT races. I am not going out there to push myself to my limit, just put in a little work and finish. My marathon will probably be 4:00 flat
What do you hope to gain out of a four hour, 26.2 mile training run? Prove that you can cover the distance (a common concern with people who blindly sign up for marathons pre-IM)? I would bet that you could go out and today and cover the distance, so a 26.2 training run likely close to 75% of your weekly mileage would do nothing more than leave you banged up and cause interruptions in your consistency of training and compromise your other sessions. As far as transferability from a 26.2 mile training run to the IM run, they are totally different animals with the only similarity being that they both last 26.2 miles.
To tack onto what Fleck said regarding racing the HM versus the full, as a general matter most MOP folks in marathon and long distance triathlon would be better served with shorter, faster long runs (80-120 mins) than with these epic slog-fests on the weekend. It’s a shame that many newbies to running have been duped into thinking that these long, slow survival quests on the weekend are more important to success than consistency during the week.