M.Dot 70.3 vs independant half

Triathlon Forum
1

WTC has raise the bar and created a niche for 70.3 race that people are flocking to, vip treatment, big finish line, big expo, big sponsors, exotic location, etc…

their marketing and race budget are of the chart.

a independent race director like me, with a business, working 12 hours a day and a family, cannot compete with them.
i believe i offer a good safe event, with no thrill, some people have hire expectation because of IRONMAN big show, and get disappointed. when they can’t rack their bike the night before, don’t have a big expo, big award party.

my style is old school triathlon.

i would like to know what do you expect and what is important to you from a race director for a $200 race.

thanks

“French by birth, American by choice”

2

…i would like to know what do you expect and what is important to you from a race director for a $200 race.

…
An Ironman 70.3 experience? :wink:

3

Is that $200 US?

I have to admit we are really spoiled up there in Ontario. We can race a 1/2 IM for about $125 Can. ($100 US). For that we get a great safe course, good food after, good prizes after and home before dinner. :slight_smile: I won’t have to spend a minimum 5 nights hotel anywhere, eat a crappy pre/post race meal that I don’t really want and 2000 people on a course that should have max 750.
Price your indie race correctly and people will come.

4

For $200 I would expect some pretty nice stuff. There are some independent races that get raving reviews that you can get into for $150 or less if you sign up early enough. Races such as Savageman and Muncie Endurathon are in those price ranges and you can read the reviews on here and you won’t find much if anything bad said about those. I am hoping to do both of those races this summer mainly because of what I have read about them. I have never done an official Ironman 70.3 race, but I probably will at some point just to experience it, but I am much more inclined to give my money to the smaller indy races.

5

Pre-race e-mail with race updates - no I don’t care if If I get an Exterra e-mail as well.

Race site on the web with info such as course descriptions / maps are a plus.

Quick packet pick up - day before and day off.

Easy access to race area - parking relatively close to the race venue.

Adequate transition area - size - ample security.

Enough Port-a-Johns where you’re not standing in line forever.

Start race on time

Well marked course

Course marshals at turns - yes I know it’s my responsibility to know the course
but it’s nice to just be able to race.

Timely posting of results and awards ceremony.

Post race food isn’t important to me - but I know there are those expecting a full
meal after the race.

Post full results on race site within a day or two.

6

Muncie was my first half, and this is what i want to be doing
.

7

…a independent race director like me, with a business, working 12 hours a day and a family, cannot compete with them. …

In a nutshell, that is the issue. For you being a race director is a hobby. For WTC, it is their livelihood.

If people are walking away disappointed, its because they were given expectations that did not exist. Maybe you need to look at how your event is being marketed. Not every 70.3 event racks bikes the night before.

I would try to analyze the weaknesses of an WTC event such as the large swim packs, the crowded bike paths, etc. etc. and stress how my event is so much better than that.

8

I’ve only done 2 halfs - the Kansas IM 70.3 and the “Iron Star” outside of Houston last fall - both were extremely well put on. I would find out what “Out Loud Productions” does because their ironstar half was fantastic. Key things I think an athlete looks for a) LOTS of volunteers and aid stations. b) a good course with good markings and true distances. c) does the race have a good reputation. If it’s a new event - put out tons of media hype. If the event is a few years old… and dying… ditch it and start a new race. The benefit to NOT doing an official m-dot race is there are MUCH fewer athletes which gives you more room on the course to race your race, rather than fight traffic. I don’t know why there aren’t more races that are centered around a charity of some sort. There are tons of 5K’s for fighting MS, cancer, heart disease, etc. Maybe some type of charitable draw would get more athletes to participate. United Healthcare, Blue Blue Cross/Blue Shield should help sponsor a half distance. health insurance companies benefit the most from a healthy population. If I were an RD, I would spend a good deal of time trying to sell a local sponsor to lend their name to the cause.

9

Safe course, desirable location to travel to, nice body of water to swim in, hopefully good scenery on the course, good hotels and restaurants close to the race site. With these features, I would actually prefer a smaller independent race to a 70.3. A later than 7 a.m. start would also be great.

To me, a big 70.3 turns a bit too much into a circus with it being a pain to park, the courses potentially being too crowded, and so much competition that non-elite age groupers are really not racing against anyone.

I have enjoyed the M-dot races I have done, but I enjoy the smaller races more. In a smaller race, I have a chance to try and race for an age group award, I don’t get clubbed all swim, drafting is not an issue, I get to be alone on the course at times or have someone a few hundred yards ahead to try and reel in on the run instead of being surrounded by dozens of other runners. It just feels like more of a race to me.

I have done Firmman in Rhode Island. It was a fantastic race and it appeals to me much more than the Rhode Island 70.3, with needing a shuttlebus to get to the race start at the crack of dawn, and a thousand more racers on the course. I have done Eagleman, and it was a great race. But Chesapeakeman, on the same course, with 2000 less triathletes was a far, far better experience. Some other non M-dot halfs that I thought were really great were the Cleveland 1/2, Mooseman, the Mountaineer Half, and Vermont Sun. Also, a race like the Harriman 1/2 is really great - it is on a super hard course and has a real grass-roots feel to it.

One thing that might transcend the m-dot is if your race has some kind of signature feature that draws people. SOS is not an m-dot and does not advertise, but through positive word of mouth, one cannot even get into that race anymore. I’m not sure what kind of numbers Savageman gets, but they do a great job advertising the difficulty of the course. Same with Harriman, which generally sells out, or the Auburn Half.

10

Since the WTC races are like $250 then I think the first thing you need is a lower price to attract people. I’ve never done a WTC race because I refuse to sign up for a race a year in advance. Unfortunately, too many people think “stuff/swag” makes a good race.

Here is what I want:

A well-marked swim with plenty of buoys.

A safe, difficult bike course without too many 180 degree turns or laps.

A run course I can follow when I am severely oxygen deficient.

If I happen to earn an award, it can be simple and better yet, unique in some way that depicts something about the race.

Decent timing, preferably with five splits (I love comparing transitions). :slight_smile:

Other stuff is just not that important to me and I would prefer a reduced entry fee to more swag or some popular announcer with a huge band at the finish. Unfortunately, I live in SoCal where race fees are rapidly approaching prices too high for me to race often. I miss Set Up Inc in North Carolina. They put on great races for a great price and covered all the above things I liked.

Chad

11

Keep in mind that in many cases, WTC isn’t actually putting on the 70.3. It’s an RD like you that has licensed the branding from WTC. Longhorn was a standalone event before Endorfun Sports licensed the branding. New Orleans is put on by Premier Event Management. Calgary is done by Rocky Mountain Triathlon. There are other examples (BSLT). In these cases, the branding *increases *the RD’s cost and doesn’t bring a whole lot other than the permission to call the event an Ironman 70.3.

It’s not the logo that makes the race, it’s the RD. Go to any of EndorFun’s other events and you’ll find the same caliber event as the branded half at Longhorn (I use them as an example because of personal experience with Keith and his group). So it’s not WTC that has raised the bar, it’s the RDs themselves.

Oh, and the branding doesn’t guarantee anything. Look at the fiasco at NO with the race running out of water, Gatorade, and ice on both the bike AND run courses. Just like USAT sanctioning, I don’t believe WTC branding imposes any kind of quality control over the race.

12

“the only half in the florida west coast, and the fastest half in Florida”
.

13

I’ve never done a WTC race because I refuse to sign up for a race a year in advance.

I don’t think there are really any of the 70.3 races require that, at least most don’t. There’s been a lot of IM characteristics applied to 70.3 races in this thread. Someone else mentioned a 5 night minimum hotel stay too. I don’t know of any 70.3 races that do that either.

Thom

14

I agree. I think the only thing the branding does is make the races more popular and, thus, more crowded. The difference between Eagleman and Chesapeakeman is the best example. The same race director puts on both races and they are on the same course. He does a fantastic job with each. Personally, I prefer the less crowded Chesapeakeman to Eagleman. But, they are both great races. Maybe Mooseman versus Timberman is a good example also. The same race directors are putting on similar races, and the only real difference is the number of people on the course. No branding = fewer triathletes.

If you have a somewhat unique race in nice location, I would hope the race would be successful. On the other hand, look at Triple T California just being cancelled. My wife and I were 2 of the 14 people signed up. We heard about it, got very excited and signed up last October, thinking it would sell out right away. I remember reading Dan Empfield write about the area being one of the best places for a triathlon he had ever been when they had the 101 there a few years back. So the race was unique (an IM distance stage-race), looked like it would have good scenery, hotels in town, and put on by a top-notch race organization. Seems like this is the perfect recipe for success. The fact that 12 other people signed up makes me wonder if it is possible for non M-dot branded races to survive. Makes me feel like everybody wants to eat at the chain restaurants. I guess with a branded race you generally know what you are going to get. Maybe branded events are popular partly for the same reason there are so many strip malls with Olive Gardens, Panera Bread, Chili’s, Outback Steakhouse, and TGIF - you know what you are going to get.

15

Another suggestion for your race. Can you move it earlier in the year? It is in Sarasota and while there is the occasional cold front it is doubtful to dip too cold to race. No chance of snow. Mid or early march? This year is only 3 weeks from St Anthony’s and 6 weeks from FL 70.3 (I am doing both of those) It also was the same weekend as the NO 70.3. It may appeal to more northern folks as a destination race as way to get and early preseason fix and we Floridians can train year round for it to be a goal race.

Maybe consider more sponsors to get the fees similar Florida Challenge Tri up in Clermont which used to be the same time as the Great Floridian.

16

I like a good crowd. I’m sorry, but passing people makes you feel pretty good. It’s those intermediate pursuits that keep the ultimate goal in reach :smiley:
I would just expect safety and good planning. Friends and family will be there anyway, so I can have my own party. On the other hand, if you don’t race many times a year, the extra $50 for the glitz and the glamour doesn’t seem like so much.
You appeal to a different market. I agree with accurate marketing, as stated above, and the right people will fall into place.

17

I’ve never done a WTC race because I refuse to sign up for a race a year in advance.

I don’t think there are really any of the 70.3 races require that, at least most don’t. There’s been a lot of IM characteristics applied to 70.3 races in this thread. Someone else mentioned a 5 night minimum hotel stay too. I don’t know of any 70.3 races that do that either.

Thom

The races don’t, but some of the hotels sure has heck do. Places where the hotels are scarce like some rural races know you have little option than to stay there. Places in bigger cities can’t since you have lots of choice to go elsewhere. So you are correct, the race isn’t doing it.

18

You might want to talk/PM Record10Carbon(Chip). He put on a half(Rockman) the last couple of years. People seem to like it.

19

While asking the slowtwitchers for input, let me strongly suggest looking at some other resources. There’s massive amount of consumer marketing & academic research that pertains to what people want. Some of it can be rather dry but some is very down-to-earth & sensible. Also, survey the scene. What’s going on in your region? What is offered? What’s the price point? Additionally, this sounds like an excellent project for a university business class or small business incubator. Check with your area college/uni to see what they can do for you (on the cheap). My brother’s small retail store has used the local uni’s business center to get students to look at the market, competitors, demographics & so forth for under $100. I’ve been involved with some academic research in Oceania that found participants were more interested in the “all about me” things (timing, results, accurate course) rather than the bells & whistles for an Oly/sprint series.

I’ve done the old school thing too with a sprint tri & charged only $30.