Yeah Dawg, Frikin Peanut ex-President. Frikin YaHey aka Septic Tank should consolidate all his posts on LR as well as beginnertriathlete and wherever else he spreads his crap. and go further his career with that impressive resume and apply for a job with Fuggin Jimmy Carter… or … Osama Bin Laden.
“If you go into a book store specializing in rare and obscure books and ask them if they have a copy of what was at one time referred to as the Bible, they might be able to help you.” - ajfranke
Good one mate!
Actually, there is some obscure documentation that indicates that Jews have some claims and historic conflicts in that part of the world that predate even the 19th century.
If you go into a book store specializing in rare and obscure books and ask them if they have a copy of what was at one time referred to as the Bible, they might be able to help you.
Yeah, I’ve read that book. I found the empirical evidence and other historic “facts” laid out in Genesis to be particularly intriguing …difficult to refute that Adam’s rib scenerio.
So you’ve read the Bible. So have a lot of other people in the West. …Have you read the Koran?
You haven’t answered as to why you figure yourself and YaHey of higher intellect to the rest of us here yet?
Jewish Terrorists…hah! That would make my Bubby and Zadie laugh.
Google “Stern Gang”, “Irgun” and “Fighters for the Freedon of Isreal”.
Look, I’m actually pro- Isreal. I believe they have the right to exist. I also believe the the Pals have a legit argument. Both sides have acted atrociously during this conflict. Until both sides realize that they’re going to have to compromise there won’t be peace. THis is essentially what Carter is saying.
Both sides have acted atrociously during this conflict. Until both sides realize that they’re going to have to compromise there won’t be peace.
I think this is dangerously naive and quite frankly wrong.
If Israel were to lay down its arms for good and promise never to fight again, they would be destroyed in an instant.
If the Palestinians and other terrorists were to lay down their arms for good and promise never to fight again, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have a country.
Well, apparently I’m not alone in my naiveté. There are many Israelis that feel the same as I.
If Israel were to lay down its arms for good and promise never to fight again, they would be destroyed in an instant. <
Huh? Who said they should disarm?! I said they will have to compromise. Maybe like a return to the pre 1967 borders as as laid out in the UN resolution 242.
If Israel were to lay down its arms for good and promise never to fight again, they would be destroyed in an instant.
If the Palestinians and other terrorists were to lay down their arms for good and promise never to fight again, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have a country.
Talk about an oversimplified and completely naive statement.
Are you saying if all terrorists laid down their arms, or only palestinian terrorists (remember that palestinians consider Iraelis and in particular settlers terrorists for many reasons), that Palestinians would get what they want - or better yet, Israel would give the Palestinians what they want?
The point is that no matter what Israel does it will not be enough. There will not be peace because the Palestinians/terrorists do not want peace. They want the destruction of Israel. No amount of compromise by Israel will ever be enough. I think that those who believe to the contrary are naive and believe so at their own peril. I wish I were wrong on this but I fear that I am not.
***Are you saying if all terrorists laid down their arms, or only palestinian terrorists (remember that palestinians consider Iraelis and in particular settlers terrorists for many reasons), that Palestinians would get what they want - or better yet, Israel would give the Palestinians what they want? ***
No I did not say that and I am not saying that. What the Palestinians want is the destruction of Israel and Israel will not give them that. However, if the Palestinians/terrorists laid down their arms Israel would give them peace and their own country. But that is not what they want. That is the offer that Clinton negotiated and was rejected.
Jewish Terrorists…hah! That would make my Bubby and Zadie laugh.
Google “Stern Gang”, “Irgun” and “Fighters for the Freedon of Isreal”.
Look, I’m actually pro- Isreal. I believe they have the right to exist. I also believe the the Pals have a legit argument. Both sides have acted atrociously during this conflict. Until both sides realize that they’re going to have to compromise there won’t be peace. THis is essentially what Carter is saying.
I am obviously Pro ISRAEL too. I hapen to think people who live in a Western style democracy and surf a lot should have a homeland too.
I know all about Irgun, Palmach, etc., Menachem Begin was an Irgun soldier…I just think that Jewish and Terrorist is a laughable word association. In contrast, you have: Hamas, Hizbulluh,Fatah etc. and Islam. I’ll let you make your own conclusions here.
The Israelis have already offered their land on a silver platter and Arafat in his wise ways scoffed and re-started the Intifada. By showing Fatah’s real intentions the Israeli Left wing crumbled in hysteria, and joined the Right in rebuking Palestinian claims.
Carter does not say what you are saying. He says in essence " FUCK ISRAEL, it’s 90% their fault". In doing so, President Peanut conspicuously ignores actual peace negotiations that happened, fraudulently distorted Dennis Ross’ maps used during Clinton’s admin. and sides with Arafat’s assessment of the situation. Would you want to be associated with Carter now? Apparently Nancy Pelosi and other Democaratic leaders DO NOT, as there are a number of statements from this group disassociating themselves from our ex Presidente.
What I find most disheartening about the Israel/Palestine conflict is how deep the divisions and the hatered is not just among the fanatics and the militants, but among otherwise reasonable open minded people as well.
I have very rarely encountered anyone with a dog in that fight, either Arab of Jewish, Israeli or Palestinian, who is willing to cede any meaningful middle ground or who is willing to try and look at the conflict from the perspective of their adversary.
People use absolutist terms when they discuss this conflict, whereas in reality like most conflicts, both sides have legitimate claims, both sides have legitimate grievances and both sides have reason to be ashamed of their actions.
Go get him Z-dog.
Hey Thunder, I wonder how Ya frikin Hey figures India supports Israel.
I actually respect most for YaHey’s posts. Generally they are thought out although I rarely agree with him. But on this one, he is really off base. Not sure where he gets his facts. Some of his statements would lead you to believe that he thinks that our conflict with Native Americans started with attempts in recent years to limit their ability to sell tax free cigarettes.
Really YaHey, the conflict started between Muslims and Jews in the 19th Century? Admit you flubbed that one man. I don’t think that you will be able to blame this one on cultural brainwashing – look at even the Koran and you will find a discussion about Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac. The whole thing began as pure and simple two women competing to get their sons to be the most favored of their father. From there, it was most likely competition for natural resources between the 12 tribes of Ishmael and 12 tribes of Isreal throughout the centuries.
Mike
"I am getting a big chuckle out of the idea that the reason Sunnis are killing Shia in Iraq is because of Israel. "
I don’t like a lot of what YaHey says, but I find it funny that you think Sunnis and Shia fighting in Iraq falls into the realm of our “terrorism problems.” YaHey said that OUR support for Israel is why WE have terrorist problems. Do you think terrorists would have hit the World Trade Center if we were not supporters of Israel?
If the only resolution involves the destruction of Israel, then there will be no resolution. If you agree that Israel has a right to exist, at least insofar as the original boundaries are drawn, then compromise is possible. However, the Palestinians/terrorists will not concede that point. Do you think that the Palestinians/terrorists will stop fighting so long as Israel exists? If so, what evidence do you have for that position? All the evidence I have seen is a consistent refrain calling for the destruction of Israel. Clinton gave them the chance to prove the world wrong on their desire for Israel’s destruction. They rebuffed him. It is not a matter of an open or closed mind. It is a matter of believing people when they say they want to see Israel driven into the sea. It is a matter of believing people when they train their young men and women to blow themselves up on buses and in pizza parlors. When that stops and they agree that Israel has at least the right to exist as per the original boundaries, then I will consider compromise an option. I think that day will never come.
“Do you think terrorists would have hit the World Trade Center if we were not supporters of Israel?”
Yes. They would just give a different excuse. Actually the excuse at the time was that we were in Saudi Arabia. I guess you don’t remember that. Now that we are not in Saudi Arabia, I am not noticing a different attitude.
We could nuke Israel for them tomorrow, they would just go onto another demand.
Hmm. Let’s see. Suicide truck bombs blowing up at a labor center killing 60. Sounds a bit like terrorism to me. How about you?
Here is the best summary that I have seen on the conflict in Israel. Historically, yes, the conflict between the jews and Arabs has been long running for millenia. But the way Israel was created in the 1920’s-1940’s ensured that generations of jews and arabs would die in a never ending conflict. There has been a lot of mistreatment of arabs by the jews in Israel. This is undeniable.
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp
Here’s my take, and I’m not jewish or anti-semetic, even though I don’t support Israel. BTW, I also don’t support the Arab countries. I see the value of having Israel be our military arm in the middle east, but let’s face it, our relationship with them is like having the tail wag the dog.
The US has to at a minimum give the Arabs the impression that we are impartial to both sides. We the US have always refused to see the side of the Arabs, and have always refused to support them even when they had legitimate issues with the Israelis. I don’t know why we continue with a shrirade of trying to pretend we’re diplomats and peace makers when we don’t give a toot about the Arabs. Kind of hypocritical in my opinion. If we want peace for ourselves and Israel, we need to support the Arabs too.
Do you think terrorists would have hit the World Trade Center if we were not supporters of Israel?
Abosolutely. The fundamentalist Islaam hatred of the U.S. goes into the very grain of our culture. They hate everything about the U.S., and our support of Isreal is just another point on the list. If you want to argue that our support to Isreal was the tipping point and the reason the fundamentalists got militant about their relationship with the U.S., then you will have to find someone a lot smarter than I am to argue that with.
But to say they would be our friends if it weren’t for our support of Isreal is really oversimplifying the situation. It is a contributor, sure, but not the root cause.
Mike
I** don’t know why we continue with a shrirade of trying to pretend we’re diplomats and peace makers when we don’t give a toot about the Arabs. Kind of hypocritical in my opinion. If we want peace for ourselves and Israel, we need to support the Arabs too.**
I think everyone here would agree that both Isreal and Palestine have made some mistakes since the formation of Isreal. However, for you to say that the blame lies primarily at the feet of the Isrealis is extreme. The Palestinians have made plenty of mistakes and have a lion’s share of the blame.
There is no black and white in this situation. I feel the U.S. track record with the Palestinians is good – look at Carter and even to Clinton on this. I am not saying that we support the Palestinians more than the Isrealis, but I think we have tried to get both sides to the table and find a middle ground. One of the issues at play here has already been allueded to. To a certain extent both sides are unwilling to compromise on several issues. That has created a chicken and the egg scenario according to one of my PolySci professors – bring down the wall and we will stop the suicide bombers. Stop of the suicide bombers and we will bring down the wall. Stop lobbing RPGs into towns and villages and we will withdraw our troops. Withdraw your troops and we will stop lobbing RPGs…you get the picture.
Hell, ask Syria why they assasinated Palestinians. Really, why is Syria threatened so much that they assasinate Palestinians? There was quite an uproar about this in 2006, and in my opinion, you need to look at the conflict last summer as being funded primarily by the Syrians and Iranians. The Palestinian government refused to step in because they knew in a civil war with the militias, they would be beat into the ground and someone friendly with Syria would be ruling the country. So introduce this into the equation, and the Isreals and the Syrians BOTH are to somewhat blame for the problems you perceive in Palestine YaHey. What should be done to stop the Syrians as well?
Nobody in that region has clean hands. The U.S. is sending a ton of money to Palestine to help them rebuild after the last “skirmishes”. Before you start ranting about how without our support (express or implied), Isreal never would have invaded Palestine, know that the U.S. track record in trying to establish a peaceful solution in the region is there. But like a couple of fighting brothers who have an arguement broken up by their Mom, you know they will be going at it again soon, regardless of what the rest of the world tells them what to do.
Mike