Hey, I’m in the market for a new house and want to make sure I educate myself. We live in a 1300 square foot town house. We typically keep the heat at around 68 F and use space heaters in whatever room we are usuing (typically the rec room in the basement. I think our heat bills are around $200/month during the cold months here in Philly.
My friend recently bought a McMansion. I’m going to guess its around 3000 square feet. It has 2 story vaulted celings in the entrace way, family room, and living room. We are on nartural gas, he is on propane. He told me that their heating bills are $900 a month.
!!!
Is this typical of a 3000 square foot house, or is it largely because of the vaulted ceilings? Or does the propane have something to do with it?
Any advice is appreciated. I don’t want to have to drop that kind of money on heat…and if there’s no way to get around it, then I’ll likely look for a cheaper house. Thanks.
It has been awhile since I have priced the 2 out. This was a big concern to me when I was building my house because at the time when we were planning NG was not available. We were pricing out geothermal compared to propane.
NG became available and it was really hard to justify the upfront cost for the geothermal at that point, but until then we had decided that it was worth it over the propane. I want to say that in 2000, propane was about 40% more expensive then NG. Plus you have to have the “PIG” in your backyard.
I know several people that have had their ass handed to them because they signed long term propane contracts last year or the year before when propane was at an all-time high. So they may be paying much more of a differential for 5 years.
I think since most people who have propane buy it in such large quantities and for longer periods of time that it is hard to know a per month usage. $900/month seems really high to me. We live in a 2000 sq.ft. ranch and will peak out a $200/month in Dec.,Jan., and Feb. It also spikes in June if it is cool and we are trying to keep the pool warm.
$900 a month for heating bill? Holy smokes. That’s not right. While I’m not in Philly, the biggest heating bill I’ve ever had was under $200 for that sized house.
He’s a prime candidate for a nice energy audit and retrofit. I’m guessing some simple fixes could probably cut his bills as much as 50%. And he can even get a tax credit for doing so.
duct sealing - an average home loses 20% of conditioned air to leaks in the ducts. That’s $1 of every $5 spent. Attic air sealing - more difficult to do, you have to pull back existing insulation and seal up everything. I bet he has several chases that are uncapped, allowing attic air all the way down into wall cavities Attic insulation - only after sealing up air leaks
After that he can check about insulation gaps and air leaks in the rest of the house. And he’ll want to spend $150 to install fresh air ventilation after he’s tightened everything up.
Unless he’s in a house that was built in 1850 with straw insulation, I think that there is other stuff going on here. Outside hot tub? Gas fireplace? Heated driveway?
Our house is in the same ballpark size-wise. Built in 1988, crappy revco windows, 2x6 construction with blown insulation in the attic. We generally have 2 bills in the high $300s, 2 Bills in the $200s and down from there, and we’re in northern VT. A friend with similarly sized, but more recently built house, with better windows tops off in the $200s in the cold months (Dec/Jan).
Funny enough, I lived in 1/2 of a house built in ~1700, no insulation to speak of, which was bigger than 3000ft^2, and it wasn’t $900/month.
I live in a 95-year old brick house with no insulation in Denver. Square footage is approximately 2,000 (not quite the 3,000 you were asking about). Heat and water are gas, everything else is electric.
At the peak of coldness, my bill is $350. A/C in the summer brings my bill into the $200s in the very hottest part of summer. Shoulder months are closer to $100. (I do live alone, so only one person’s worth of laundry, showers, etc.)
barryp, a couple of things… first: your buddy either has walls and roofs made of swiss cheese or there is something really wrong with his bill, they seem to be off by at least 2-3x. second: a 3000 sf house is not a mcmansion; mcmansions have 3000 sf guest/pool houses. Finally, buy the biggest house you can, if you can’t afford either the mortgage or the heating bill don’t worry, as Obama will have some program in place soon enough to help you out.
Finally, buy the biggest house you can, if you can’t afford either the mortgage or the heating bill don’t worry, as Obama will have some program in place soon enough to help you out.
I would not be surprised if the house is VERY POORLY INSULATED! I watch homes go up in that area and they throw on particle board and then slap on siding on top of that, with NO insulation! Also, in some spots-instead of the particle board wood they had styrofoam and then on top of that they would put the siding. I honestly believe that if a smart thief was paying attention they could break into a house with a utility knife. All they would have to do is cut through the vinyl siding, and through the styrofoam.
Pretty scarey. I would have him check into how they built his house if it is a new house (last 10 years).
I have a 3400 sq ft house and my bill is around 250 a month right now in Central OH. I am on natural gas but my windows are new and the insulation is good.
I would not be surprised if the house is VERY POORLY INSULATED! I watch homes go up in that area and they throw on particle board and then slap on siding on top of that, with NO insulation! Also, in some spots-instead of the particle board wood they had styrofoam and then on top of that they would put the siding. I honestly believe that if a smart thief was paying attention they could break into a house with a utility knife. All they would have to do is cut through the vinyl siding, and through the styrofoam.
Pretty scarey. I would have him check into how they built his house if it is a new house (last 10 years).
Why would you say this? Area building codes require insulation. They could not get past building inspectors without insulation. They may not be fantastically built but they are required to have insulation.
We have a house roughly the same size (3300 sq ft including walk out basement) in Minnesota and spend about $250 in the worst of months and we keep our house at about 66f. That also includes heating a 3 car garage to 48f as well. One thing that really helps us out is having good southern exposure. If the sun is shining and it’s above 10f outside our heat won’t run from about 9 in the morning until an hour or two after sunset. The rooms on the southern side of the house (the direction of the walkout) are usually 72-75f or warmer all afternoon.
Finally, buy the biggest house you can, if you can’t afford either the mortgage or the heating bill don’t worry, as Obama will have some program in place soon enough to help you out.
Moron troll.
I wish that was the case. But it seems like your hero is all about helping those who are in over their heads. I can just imagine what he will do in a few years when oil creeps its way back to $80-100 a bbl and people in the northeast can not afford their heating oil. I am sure he’ll think of some program to keep all those blue states warm.
We have 3,100 SF in central CA. Avg temp in the winter is about 45 and about 100 in the summer. Gas and elect. avg $500-600 through out the year. We run at 67 degrees in the winter and about 80 in the summer. Not exactly comfy. 30 year old house with insulation and replacement windows. Pool, hot tub. Also consider that CA has probably the highest power rates in the nation. Sooooo, $900 per month sounds pretty high. He must like it toasty warm.
$900 sounds awfully high…as you noted, propane tends to be more expensive than natural gas too.
We use electric for HVAC. 3300 sqft and a pool filter that runs 6 hours a day, every day. Of course our expenses are the inverse of yours since the summer A/C is what kills us and we seldom need to heat for more than a days at a time in the winter. In the summer, we’ll typically be over $400 but seldom hit $500. One thing that helps is the use of ceiling fans. Even in the winter, and especially for vaulted ceilings, forcing the heated air back down to living level can be really helpful…just remember to turn them off when you leave the room. Proper insulation is another key. When we built, we spec’d a higher rating for just about everything, including doors and windows.
I’d check around…I just don’t think that $900 is going to be typical, even in the dead of winter. At least I’d hope not!
…and if it is, one other thing to remember…roads go south too!
I only say that because I have seen it. I am talking about an area just outside of Philly. I have no idea how they get away with it, but I promise you it is for real!
in some spots-instead of the particle board wood they had styrofoam and then on top of that they would put the siding
This is actually pretty common. They use metal strapping/banding to provide for resistance to racking. It actually allows for a very tight/efficient house. That said, I wouldn’t buy one.
I think propane is more expensive than natural gas per btu of heat produced. That may account for fact that $900 to heat a newer 3000 sf house is about 3 times what it should cost using natural gas even in the frozen north.
