Reading the “Is Jack Daniels killing me thread” got me to thinking about what percent of ones weekly miles should be in the long run…specifically, for triathletes. I have never read JD’s book, but I can certainly understand the 25% max if one is doing specific run training.
Now throw in the bike and swim (not to mention work, life, etc), and I suspect most long distance triathletes are probably doing there long run well over 25% of mpw.
Last year while training for IMFL, my largest run weeks (long/total) were 18/38 and 20/42. This year with nothing longer than a half on the schedule, I’ll prob peak around 16/40.
Just as background, Im 32yo and right now my VDOT is 46. When I’ve peaked in the past I was around 47.5 to 48. I ran a 1:40:53 in a HIM last year. I run 4x per week and my hours max out at ~18/wk.
Just curious how others break up their mileage? Is <50% a good target for long/total or do you think it should be lower? maybe 40%? How many runs do you do per week?
I’m not really qualified to answer, but I am in a similar situation. I read Daniels a while ago but didn’t pay too much attention to the numbers (I guess the numbers are the whole point). I’m at 35-45 mpw with a long run of 12-18, which puts me well over 25% but less than 50.
It think the logic for keeping it around 25% was for connective tissue to gradually adapt to the greater distances. Perhaps the biking helps that, but I suspect that it’s not equivalent. What I do is pay close attention to how each run feels. We have the aerobic engine to go much further, but without the chassis, it may be reckless.
Keep accurate notes so that you can track any issues to your volume.
My long runs are generally 25% - 30% of my weakly mileage. I’ve found it best to build endurance through frequency and intensity, as opposed to over distance. My long run (Wednesday) maxes out at 1:45 and generally 13ish miles. From 1:00 - 1:30 I do tempo intervals depending on where I am in the training cycle. Runs greater than 1:45 tend to really reduce the quality of the following days workouts. I run 5 - 6 times per week and throw in a second longer run (1:15; Sunday) with some tempo/race specific pacing. This proto has enabled me to get from a 1:45 HIM runner to a mid-1:30ish HIM runner over the past 3 years.
Thanks for the post. I like the engine/chassis analogy. It really makes sense. It reminds me to when I was new in the sport…got a bit over ambitous and was constantly feeling the aches and pains of running…nothing serious, but just achy…even just 7mi run back then. In 2007 I thought scaling back to 3 runs/wk would save the legs…but in hindsight it was the better balance of running over the last 1.5yrs that has felt the best…this coincides with getting the long run to <50% of mpw as well as I’m sure just the gradual adaptation that occurs with consistent training (even if sub-optimal) over time.
From a performance perspective, I would have been better served delaying the HIM and IM circuit a bit longer.
So with a 13mi long run, a second run of 1h1m, and ~43-52mpw, I am guessing your other 3-4 runs are all about 1hr? Any speed work or you running all of these at long run or tempo pace?
Right now I am around 30% of my weekly mileage as the long run (long run of 11-12 mi, total mpw of 35ish). In theory, this percentage will decrease as I leave the long run where it is at and increase total mileage over the next few weeks.
For your long run to be only 25% of weekly mileage, you need to be doing at least five runs a week (that’s simple math) and even then, the shortest run has to be fairly long or else the longest run will be more than 25% of MPW. For example, say your MPW is 40 and thus your long run max is 10 miles. If your shortest run is 2 miles tacked onto the end of a brick, then you’ve got 38 miles left for your long run and three other runs. So, basically you’d be doing four runs between 8-10 miles each, which does not make the long run appreciably longer than your fourth longest run. Does not make much sense to me.
Also, as a practical metter, the 25% rule just does not work well for most triathletes. If you are training for a half or full iron, you need long runs of 12+ miles. That means your weekly mileage needs to be 48+ miles, which is awfully high for most folks.
I agree…I am kinda leaning twd 40% as a target at this point. Its especially tough now with the limited daylight if you are a 9-5er. Only a couple more weeks until DST though.
My mileage caps out around 45/mpw. My other runs are 45 - 50 minutes and are generally done at AeT to AeT + 5bpm. Sometimes my dogs take me out a little quicker than I would like.
I’m generally training 16 - 20/hrs per week. Two weeks on and one off (12ish hours). Breakout as 3 - 4 swims (4.5 hrs), 3 - 4 bikes (8 hrs) and 5 runs (5.5 hrs). I’ve been racing 10 years.
I’ve battled with this question for a while. I think this is the best way I’ve figured out how to answer this:
Run Only Training
25% of your weekly mileage
except when training for long events. Then some event specific long runs should be added in to prepare for the race distance. ie, a 40 mile/wk person training for an HM will likely want to build toward 12-14 milers in the last phases of training and 15-20 milers for a marathon.
Triathlon Training
I like to think of workouts in 3 categories: short runs, medium runs, and the long run. Mediums are twice as long as shorts. The long is three times as long as a short. The actual makeup of the runs will vary from person to person depending on how many runs they do a week. Someone like myself might do the following:
5 runs a week: 10, 5, 10, 5, 0, 15, 0
5 runs a week: 5, 10, 5, 5, 15, 0
4 runs a week: 5, 10, 0, 10, 0, 15, 0
4 runs a week: 5, 10, 0, 5, 0, 15, 0
3 runs a week: 10, 0, 5, 0, 0, 15, 0
3 runs a week: 10, 0, 10, 0, 0, 15, 0 (notice no short runs. I still think of it as if they exist, but I’m just skipping them).
except when training for long events. Then some event specific long runs should be added in to prepare for the race distance. ie, a person training for an HIM will likely want to build toward 12-14 milers in the last phases of training and 15-20 milers for an IM.
I don’t know if my plan is good or bad, but I’m training for a 50K trail run in April.
My long run last weekend was 22 miles and I’ll run a total of 44 miles this week. I have 24/48 and 26/50 mile weeks ahead (interspersed with shorter recovery weeks) before a three-week taper leading up to the event.
I went with the long run at about 80-85% of weekly miles. Really, I’m not a high milage trainer, so in getting ready for the one IM I did, it was pretty much a long run and the brick run each week. Worked fine for what I was looking for.
I typicaly run 3x per week. My long run is frequently more than 50% of my total run volume, and once in-season my other 2 runs are both speed oriented. With triathlon you have to consider all of your training. I find there is a lot of running cross-over benifit from the biking, and visa-versa. FWIW my expereince is that if you are putting in good biking volume and the right kind of runs, you don’t have to run very much to run well, at least up to a 1/2 ironman.
The long run is seriously overrated. What you want to maximize for running is total weekly mileage – the area under the graph. Far better to have weeks with 60 total miles and a long run of 10 than to have weeks of 45 miles and long run of 20. Particularly when this process is repeated week after week.
Admittedly, my experience is far more with just running alone than with triathlon training But having a long run of over 50% of your weekly mileage is not something you want to do in any sport, triathlon or not. Yes you can get away with it. But it is a bad, bad idea. It exposes you to the extremes of stresses of distance training without giving you most of the benefits. Because most of the benefits come with consistency.
For the most part, triathletes swim like shit, bike like shit and run like shit. They just need to do it better than other triathletes. I myself get frustrated some times. You put it more hours than single sport dudes yet results are hard to quantify. Taking a year off to be run only dude, say 8 workouts a week and lay down some good times sounds appealing…but then I’d be skinny upper body guy and who wants that.
The longest run of the week should never be more than half of your weekly total
If you’re running 20 miles a week, your longest run is 10 miles, max. “Triathletes and marathoners tend to break this one, and their forms is totally gone by the end of the long run,” say Dicharry. “It’s a prime set-up for injury.”
…"
Long runs seems to take too much out of me, which limits my weekly mileage. Even when running mid 50s weekly in prep for an 50-miler my long run was only 13 miles.
Go looking at the final kilometers of an IM or even a half. I don’t see much running after the first 100 athletes have passed. Best I see is a shuffle with hardly to no time with two feet of the ground (the definition of running). Most folks just speedwalk. For effective running you need to keep speed over 8 k/h. Check average speed of the last 30 k in an IM marathon and then you will see that most people have a pentathlon (3.8 swimming/ 180 bike tour/ 15 k slow jog/ 10 k shuffle/ 17 k (speed)walk). Nothing elitist, just a fact that only few folks show up prepared to run on race day. And to my opnion that is triathlon. Swim bike run…
I train more or less between 50-80 km running/week. It varies per season. Biggest runs are in biggest weeks so I guess I do 3/8st of milage in the long run. But this I do on a basis of a lot of weeks in the 70 k/week range with no runs over 20 k. Then a few big runs won’t mess you up as much as it does to someone doing a lot of time in the 40 k/week range and then built up to 30 k runs together with highering total milage in the same weeks. Consistency in long term… And I never do too many of the 30 k runs. Just a few each season.
