Has anyone noticed this? Look at someone like Hunter Kemper who looks like he has no upper body muscle mass compared to someone like Tim Deboom or the Cam’s. I know it is a somewhat subtle difference but it’s noticable.
My thought is that the long course guys have to rely more on their upper body strength to have a good swim (and save their legs) whereas the ITU short course guys rely a lot on their kick as they kick amazingly hard; that along with running 30 min 10ks probably keeps the upper body mass down.
It seems like seconds would matter more to the short course elites and, accordingly, every ounce counts. I agree with your theory that long courses need more upper body strength in the swim.
It could also be that the naturally larger triathletes are drawn to long course racing, because their BMI (Body Mass Index) is too high to compete at shorter distances.
I don’t think the difference in body types is all that suttle. You stand Simon Lessing next to an IM athlete, and Lessing looks starved (at least from the pics that I’ve seen). Then again, it isn’t a bodybuilding contest. Or as a buddy (huge Bulls’ fan) used to say when someone commented on Scoettie Pippen’s “lack of handsomeness” … “It ain’t no damn beaty contest!”
Actually, the short course guys need more pure upper body for flat out speed on the swim, but also need less overall bulk for flat out speed on the run, so it turns out that the guys who excel are technically proficient swimmers with skinny bodies (they do exist), who are carrying minimal weight on the run. So really it is a self selection thing. The guys who are not built like a prototype ITU short course guy try other things like long course.
On that note however, upper body and core strength while important on the swim actually show their value on the last 10 miles of the run when no one is running that fast in an Ironman, but the ability to muscle though the run using leg, core and upper body strength allow the long course guy to hold his form longer. There is an optimal mix of mass vs weight and we have seen relative well muscled athletes like Dave Scott, Mark Allen and Norman Stadler hold their own. A guy like Garret McFayden is the perfect example. Lots of muscle and his bike-run has been similar or better than Reid on more than one occaision. Too bad he does not use that muscle to his advantage in the swim, popping out at a 62 min or so.
“so it turns out that the guys who excel are technically proficient swimmers with skinny bodies (they do exist), who are carrying minimal weight on the run.”
That is why the future stars of the sport of triathlon are being recruited on the pool deck at age-group and highschool swim meets - find the kids who are great swimmers who can also run, cause not every good/great swimmer can run( think Michael Thorpe). Don’t worry so much about the bike. Despite the obsession here with the bike that is something that with the right coaching, time and training will come along nicely at a later date. Many top coahes actually look at the bike as being somewhat neutral while the bookend sports of swimming and running require an early start and a certain natural talent that has a limited window of time to tap into.
Don’t worry so much about the bike. Despite the obsession here with the bike that is something that with the right coaching, time and training will come along nicely at a later date. Many top coahes actually look at the bike as being somewhat neutral while the bookend sports of swimming and running require an early start and a certain natural talent that has a limited window of time to tap into.
Do you have any idea how many e-mails Dan just received requesting your banishment?
Interesting comment. Perhaps that is why the bike is the most popular (or at least at certain sites) … it’s the one that requires the least natural talent. That may or not may not be true (looking for others to comment on it) … but it makes sense that it could be one (out of many) reason why the bike is so popular.
The thing that seems fascinating to me is that there really is such a huge range of body types. Compare Cam & Peter, when they were running in Kona. Or Michellie & Natascha. There is room for athlete of seemingly every size and shape and at every level in the sport. I think that is pretty cool. And, especially in long course, you can work your strength and make it work by excelling in a certain area. Even Jan Sibbersen has made quite a good carreer so far by really dominating the swim.
yeah, i’ve been noticing this for a long time, but none of my friends believe me. i’ve got a wicked-fast marathonner friend (low 2:40’s) who qualified for IM canada, and i told him “hit the weight room, you’re going to need more stregth!” and he waved it off. and he got spanked in penticton. his motor is obviously great, but triathlon - ironman especially - is a strength sport.
yeah, i’ve been noticing this for a long time, but none of my friends believe me. i’ve got a wicked-fast marathonner friend (low 2:40’s) who qualified for IM canada, and i told him “hit the weight room, you’re going to need more stregth!” and he waved it off. and he got spanked in penticton. his motor is obviously great, but triathlon - ironman especially - is a strength sport.
"Don’t worry so much about the bike. Despite the obsession here with the bike that is something that with the right coaching, time and training will come along nicely at a later date. Many top coahes actually look at the bike as being somewhat neutral while the bookend sports of swimming and running require an early start and a certain natural talent that has a limited window of time to tap into.
Do you have any idea how many e-mails Dan just received requesting your banishment?"
I believe it was Dan who wrote the article on Cheetahs or Sharks dominating triathlons.
“but triathlon - ironman especially - is a strength sport.”
You’re kidding right? An 8 - 9 hour+ event is a, “strength sport”. Perhaps mental strength, that I will agree to, but on the physical side, it’s about having the modestly large and effcient aerobic motor that will purr along all day.
As for your friend the , 2:40 marathon runner turned IM. Out-right run ability does not mean you will do well in an IM. I have known many runners with PB’s much faster than your friends who have been crushed by the IM. Great running ability is a good starting point and gives a person a a bit of a head start, but it’s really about being balanced in all three sports and then executing well on race day.
it was intersting to read this thread as from a girl’s perspective it always seemed to me that it was the other way around.
Comparing f.ex. Lori Bowden or Natascha Badmann to Sheila Taormina and Barb Lindquist or even now Michellie Jones, the short-course female athletes always struck me as somewhat bulkier? I thought it was because they needed more power/strength to produce speed whereas the IM is more about sustained endurance? Any thoughts?
i read the article, and though i don’t disagree with what he says, i do think it’s incomplete.
i’ll never argue that triathletes across any distance need to get into the gym and do huge squats and bench presses etc., but the author doesn’t say a word about core stregth. your core is the functional link between your upper and lower body, and that link is wickedly important in swimming, cycling and running.
watch a young swimming or water polo team on deck and they spend more time doing functional strength training and ‘dryland’ in one workout that most triathletes do all month. as for his statement 'lift weights if you want but it won’t make you a better swimmer, cyclist or runner. . ’ - i think that’s highly debatable. to say the least.
i think people mistake my meaning on this one a lot, so i’ll try to clairfy. i agree that w/ ironman, running ability is not the key. look at the fastest marathon at kona this year: 2:49. that’s not fast. “fast” is 45 minutes better than that. so ironman isn’t about ‘being fast’. of course it’s about endurance, you need a good motor to be able to do anything for 8 hours straight.
to me, the difference between a good runner and a good ironman runner is strength. it’s not engine. getting off the bike and running requires a really, really strong core to hold you upright, and this becomes more pronounced as the race gets longer. have you seen the posture of some people at the end of ironman? too, riding that long requires strong rotators/shoulders to take the shock without withering - especially after a long swim.
there are some other examples, but on to my point: i don’t think ironmen (or any triathletes) need to worry about setting records for their preacher curls or bench presses. but i do think that ‘function strength’ training - especially of unsexy things like hip flexors and rotator cuffs - is key, and usually neglected.
