I’m getting this quote from Lionel’s blog in one of his replies - I’m particularly intrigued by 2 things:
his avoidance of running fresh
this thoughts that fresh running doesn’t necessarily transfer to triathlon running
“…As for doing high end running and biking on the same day, for quite a while now I have done all of my running after biking…including workouts. My philosophy is that I don’t care about running fresh anymore, triathlon running is running with tired legs. Thus, all of my run workouts are done after having already did my bike workout. Perhaps the run workout would be a bit easier and I could go a bit faster if I did it fresh, but I think the better you can get at running on “bike legs” the better you will get at triathlon running…pure running improvements do not necessarily transfer over as well.”
Personally I love it. Most people could afford a little extra mileage in their training, and you can’t expect to be fresh for all of it if you’re going to get in high volume.
So you can run harder maybe
So you are less likely to get injured maybe
So you don’t have to not run on a day that you aren’t biking maybe
Just like in a race, one never runs on fresh legs, so why do in training?
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When I see folks my age beating me running, and not hurt, I will then ask what they do. In the meantime, I am pretty proud of my 20 minute 5K run in the wind pushing my
grandkids in a double stroller yesterday at 57 years old. I did not do too bad pushing a double stoller in the 10K 5 minutes after the 5K race either. :o)
I take input from folks who have results to talk their walk.
Then you will be getting input from people with big aerobic engines, more than coaching skill.
I take input from folks who have results to talk their walk.
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I just never understand why some of you always have to say the only thing that can work for anyone is only what you think is right. If there was only one way to train, everyone would be doing it the same way.
I have never ever said anything I do would work for anyone else directly. But, I have been doing this sport long enough, reading long enough, talking to enough coaches and others, and have had pretty decent
results that I feel strongly I can at least offer to some that some things I do might be worth considering.
I just never understand why some of you always have to say the only thing that can work for anyone is only what you think is right. If there was only one way to train, everyone would be doing it the same way.
I never said that. I’m not even disagreeing with LSanders on this, I have no idea. I was playing devil’s advocate for you, because you asked a question. You asked why someone would do a certain thing. I gave three reasons a person might do such a thing.
Sanders is incorrect because he chooses to say “he never” runs on fresh legs. He totally discounts training protocols which would suggest quality is important. Therefore he is wrong by your own definition. And considering his years of experience, I would say talent trumps knowledge or experience.
And it’s worth noting, this thread is entitled “Lionel Sanders Wisdom” I don’t listen to anyone under the age of 35 as a general rule.
Is it possible that both methods are effective for what one is attempting to accomplish? Running on fresh legs allows for more quality, distance, etc while running after biking puts the body through stresses that are not accomplished on fresh legs. Why does this thread remind me of when my two daughters were 6 & 8
So you can run harder maybe
So you are less likely to get injured maybe
So you don’t have to not run on a day that you aren’t biking maybe
Just like in a race, one never runs on fresh legs, so why do in training?
.
When I see folks my age beating me running, and not hurt, I will then ask what they do. In the meantime, I am pretty proud of my 20 minute 5K run in the wind pushing my grandkids in a double stroller yesterday at 57 years old.
I take input from folks who have results to talk their walk.
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Does anyone else smell that? Something reeks of hubris around here but Im not sure what…
Is it possible that both methods are effective for what one is attempting to accomplish? Running on fresh legs allows for more quality, distance, etc while running after biking puts the body through stresses that are not accomplished on fresh legs. Why does this thread remind me of when my two daughters were 6 & 8
Generally I am of the opinion of “always on the freshest legs possible”…in that vein, on a daily basis the order of my workouts would be run first, bike second, swim last (assuming I did all three). If I only do two, keep the same order and remove one sport from the sequence.
Having said that unlike the rest of us with small engines and relatively bad running biomechanics, when we run fresh the force we put to the pavement is not as high as Lionel, and when we are tired, our biomechanics are shittier than his. So when he runs on trashed legs, using a lower percentage of his engine, he is putting his legs through less pounding than if he ran fresh…and since his biomechanics are awesome, there is even a lower risk of injury…for the rest of us, even through running trashed means less force on the legs, it also comes with worse biomechanics, which is why we generally have to do our longer/harder running fresh. Lionel is a different animal though, and what works for him, or Crowie in his peak is not something that likely works for most of us.
I think all of us can agree that some brick runs are good off the bike…but general accepted view is short and not too hard, just to get used to the transition…other than that, run with the freshest legs possible.
