Lift weights, train slower, eat less refined carbs....get faster?

Triathlon Forum
1

Mark Sisson’s Article here is excellent.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/health_doping_slowtwitch2.html

He opens with an excellent point.

“So it amazes me when guys in their 40s and 50s who are training for a marathon or Ironman suggest that doing so will keep them young. It won’t. You may feel like a stud now with your shaved legs and your magic marker biceps tattoos, but endurance training speeds up the aging process almost as fast as watching TV, drinking sodas and eating potato chips. Actually, in some cases, it speeds it up even faster…Humans were just not designed to work for extended periods of time at 80-90% VO2max. Our evolutionary blueprint, the last draft of which was completed well over 10,000 years ago, set us up as great slow-movers and occasional fast sprinters.”

I liked the evolutionary view of things and of course, I like things that are “in line” with the way I approach health and fitness.

A few summary points that I like to apply:
eliminate carbos that are not complex and only the amount that you really need stop using refined sugars like gels etc except when you really need them on long training maintain lean muscle mass (and thereby organ function) by doing things that your body is designed to do like high resistance training (weights) in short bursts keep the aerobic training at a really low intensity (I do this for most of the year…)
I can see the value of keeping insulin down:

“The requisite high intake of carbohydrates to provide fuel requires that an enormous amount of insulin be produced and circulated to help store it. Chronic high blood insulin levels promote inflammation. Anti-aging scientists will tell you that insulin is one of the best markers of longevity in all animals… that the less you produce (type 1 diabetics notwithstanding) the longer you live.”

While I am not going to the extreme of Mark and refraining from endurance training for half the year, I do have to say that applying a similar view at a macro level to my training, has allowed me to “slow down less” than my 40-44 age group competitors compared to when they were dusting me at the age of 28. In fact, aside from my pure running speed, applying some of the macro concepts that Mark speaks of, allows me to go faster.

Now I realize that there is an anti weight training mafia here at ST, but when I talk to most of the masters athletes at the front end of the field, we are all lifting weights almost 12 months a year. The younger naysayers might say that it is not optimum for pure triathlon performance, but it is good for our overall health to exercise a different energy system that will result in more lean muscle mass and over time better health is a good thing for getting faster.

Please read Mark’s article. It provides an excellent insight on a more balanced view of fitness.

2

Speaking about what the human body was designed for isn’t speaking about evolution at all. It speaks to a lack of understanding of it. We were not DESIGNED for anything.

Nor does our evolutionary optimization necessarily prove anything about what will enable us to live the longest. Evolution doesn’t care about post reproductive longevity.

Now, train slower, lift weights, get faster? Maybe, try it and see, report back. Less talk, more experimentation!

3

Jack, I just completed year number 10 of the experiment and it seems to be getting me faster. True thing about evolution not caring about post reproductive longevity, so it would only make sense that if you want to stay fast, keep your body in the same state as when you are in, or close, to your reproductive prime…anything we can naturaly do to preserve it in that state would be a good thing.

4

Interesting stuff Paul. I’ve been living this way for my short 11 year multi-sport lifetime. Since I started late in life, I have always had the goal to do this stuff as long as I can. Avoiding injury is key and staying away from the edge of damaging parts is equally as important. So far so good at 62 I’m still in one piece and intend to stay that way. Finding suitable fuel for those long work-outs is tough though because I’m not a fan of refined carbohydrates. You have any ideas about that?

Paul

5

I think its a perfectly reasonable training plan as well, I just don’t like the reasoning behind why here =)

I think it is a good plan because: training slow lets you pile on huge miles without injury, the weights take care of muscle building and power

I don’t think the carbs matter at all

But in the end my plausible story is just like any other, a plausible story and nothing more!

=)

6

I’m clearly no expert, but I think the idea is that the refined carbs are just fine for the long workout fuel…just cut them out of the day to day stuff as much as possible. As they say…eat from the outside aisles of the grocery store…the stuff on the inside aisles is where all the “packaging and refinement” takes place…

Eating from the outside aisles takes more work, but it is certainly worth the effort.

7

I’m clearly no expert (…)
I’m framing that :wink:
.

8

Evolution & weight lifting? Don’t fit together.
Evolution & swimming? Our cousins the dolphins are a bit different from us.

There is a complete field trying to explain or guess what we should do based on evolution, from psychology to physiology. some arguments are interesting, some are more philosophical than scientific. Maybe interesting and worth debating, but nevertheless more akin to a philosophical debate than a scientific.

'Humans were just not designed …’ For me that’s antinomic with evolution. Either we have been ‘designed’ or we have ‘evolved’. Can’t have it both ways. And claiming that the blueprint is fixed in time is also denying the very principle of evolution. I feel there is a major flaw in his rationale.

What is your ultimate goal? Fitness, longevity? Not necessarily the same. And how do you define fitness? Many of the old farmers couldn’t run 10 metres, but they lived 100yrs. Were they fit?

Don’t get me wrong: evolution is a major point to take into account when thinking about our making, but it should not be a rationale for everything and anything. I am not saying that naything you are suggesting is wrong, but post-hoc rationalisation is not akin to scientific evidence.

PS: by the way, have we evolved to post on the internet? :wink: Best way to be faster: stop typing/reading and go running!

9

Hi Jack, we’re all trying to educate ourselves here, and Mark mentions the link between the refined carbs, overconsumption of said carbs and high insulin levels. What’s your take on that?

10

I think the young naysayers are right as well as the old farts that lift weights. It’s pretty well established that as you age you lose muscle mass an resistance training is necessary to get that back. On the flip side it’s also pretty well established that at younger ages you don’t lose muscle mass, at least not nearly as quickly, and thus don’t necessarily need to lift weights.

I’m also confused on the part about running a Ironman and marathon not being good for you because it’s to intense. Isn’t 80-90% consider “Tempo” or 10-20K pace? Seems both marathons and IM’s are done at a lower intensity as well as most of the training for them. Am I off here?

~Matt

11

I am nowhere near as fast as many on this board, but the past three years have taken me down this path…very much by accident.

Because of restricted training time with the new baby starting in October 2005, I increased my time in the weight room. This made sense on all fronts: I have a gym here at work, I could do my workouts mid-day, and maintain muscle mass while cutting back training time on the weeknights and weekends. The increase in weight-room time was also to help prepare for Dragon Boating (very core-specific work, year-round).

The results: My weight dropped from 197 to 190, and I’ve gotten faster. I set a PR at the Half-Marathon last September (at age 35), and ran my best marathon in 5 years at Boston this past April. My swim splits are the same (despite almost NO pool time), and the bike is close enough to be considered solid.

I’m a believer.

Hurricane Bob

  • I’m also an experiment of one! *
12

Honestly I have no knowledge, expertise, or idea bout the carb thing. Consider my opinion useless there =)

13

My thought is that you either need to do weight training, or interval training, but maybe not both. Weight training may be safer in terms of avoiding overuse injuries, so maybe is better for older athletes.

Pure speculation though =) I know that when I spent a couple months doing mark allen style training my mile run time got slower :frowning:

14

Jack…you mentioned that you need to do interval training or weights to achieve this goal of maintaining muscle mass. I think in the context of this discussion the intervals are around 30 seconds to 60 seconds at a pretty high intensity to basically work the same system that Mark was speaking of? And yes, for the older athlete, usually weight training is a safer option than doing “blow your achilles apart 200m sprints in sub 30 seconds”.

Dev

15

Four Fueling Plans for Endurance Athletes by Scott Saifer Invest in your Goals! Contact 925-933-7306 or ScottSaifer@WenzelCoaching.com for more information

Enough biochemistry! On to the rules (Remember that these rules are for most of the time, but not for during or just before challenging training or competition) Rule Number 1: Cut out all processed sugars. This is the hardest rule to follow, but probably also the most important. Do not eat white table sugar, cookies, cake, donuts, sports drinks, sports energy foods (except during exercise), jam, jelly… Avoid sweetened bread, and anything else that tastes sweet from added sugar. Learn to read labels: Look out for sucrose, glucose, fructose, dextrose, and corn-syrup. You need not avoid things that have some sugar but don’t taste sweet. Sugar is addictive. You will probably feel tired, draggy or ravenously hungry for two days to one week as you adjust to a sugar free life-style. The worse you feel, the worse addicted you were. Feel free to eat lots of fresh fruit. Research shows that while fatter and thinner people often get similar total amounts of sugar, fat people get it as added sugar while thin people get it in fruits. Rule #1A: Reduce your consumption of high glycemic index foods if you want to lose weight and you are exercising seven hours per week or less. Cut out the potatoes, white flour, white bread, bananas and other starches except to the extent that you need them as exercise fuel. This does not apply during exercise. During exercise, emphasize high glycemic index foods. Rule #2: Balance in every meal. Every meal should include some low-fat protein source (fish, poultry, pork, tofu, tempeh, beans, yogurt, cottage cheese…), some low or moderate glycemic index complex carbohydrate source (whole wheat pasta or bread, brown rice, oats, corn…), a little bit of fat (it’s okay to sauté but not deep fry), and a lot of vegetables or fruit. Don’t be afraid of fat. The more fat-free-products become available, the fatter Americans become. Could there be a connection? Fat has a powerful appetite reducing effect, so a small amount of fat actually helps you be comfortable eating less. Fat does not reduce appetite until it reaches the intestine, so fat at the beginning of a meal will do more to help you eat less than fat at the end of the meal. The only calorie counting I ever advocate is to keep approximate track of how much protein you eat: one quarter to one third of a gram per day per pound of weight you want to keep. Rule #3: Drink water and lots of it. Drink water before you eat. Urine would ideally be clear and colorless most of the time. Avoid both sugar waters (sodas, lemonade, sports drinks) and fruit juices. Orange juice has about as many sugar calories as Coca-Cola. Drink water and eat fruit. If you must drink other than water, drink diluted fruit juices. Add as much water as won’t ruin the flavor. (This does not apply during training. During training use a sports drink that includes both calories as carbohydrate and electrolytes.) Rule #4: Lot’s of vegetables. Eat a balanced mix of protein and carbohydrate foods from the beginning of the meal, but if you’re still not comfortably full after having eaten enough protein and carbohydrate complete the meal with raw, steamed or boiled vegetables and salads. Avoid over-consumption of raw spinach however. In the long run, weight loss or weight maintenance is about behaviors, so the rest of these rules are about eating behaviors and the psychological states that trigger them. These are especially valuable to those who seek to lose weight or to keep weight off, and will not be relevant to those who naturally arrive at a good racing weight. Rule #5: No matter what your mother said, and no matter how many children are starving in Africa, you don’t have to clean your plate. Never eat to the point where you are uncomfortably full. Always leave the table still able to eat more.

I found this on cyclingnews.com last week
sounds like a bout the same diet

Thom

16

Speaking about what the human body was designed for isn’t speaking about evolution at all.

I’m fairly confident referencing the design of an evolutionary process is an oxymoron. :wink:

17

Humans were just not designed to work for extended periods of time at 80-90% VO2max. Our evolutionary blueprint, the last draft of which was completed well over 10,000 years ago, set us up as great slow-movers and occasional fast sprinters."

Just wondering how many people (if any) can hold 90% of VO2max for “extended periods of time”. Guess it depends on your definition of “extended”.

I don’t know if I qualify as a “masters athlete at the front end of the field”, having won the 45-49 AG at each of the three local triathlons I’ve done this year, but if so your statement about them all lifting 12 months a year is not quite accurate.

18

Hmmm, Let me first say I think D Paul is one better posters on ST but I respectfully disagree with his assessment of the article. Let me paraphase from another post on another thread (in a galaxy far, far away)…After dispatching anyone who might disagree with him (you know who you are, Frank Shorter ‘psychophants’! I think De Soto makes those with pockets) we’re peppered with the sort of pop psych research that drives me nuts. First, we’re treated to a fractured fairy tale version of human evolutionary history (what was the average lifespan in 10000 BC), then we’re enthralled by proverbial studies which ‘may show’ or ‘can lead to’ , here’s one of my favorites – ‘Studies have shown an increase in mortality when weekly coaloric expenditures exceed 4000 calories’…so my long bike ride will kill me? The bottom line – eat right (whole foods, lean meats, take your vitamins) and oh yeah, see your doctor.

I do agree with what D Paul is preaching in his subject line but it happens to suit where I’m at agewise and fitness wise. Maybe there 's some hard clinical evidence out there that supports this but I wouldn’t look for it in this article.

Respectfully yours,

19

Ken knowing that you are out there winning your age group, I said that when I talk to MOST…however the wording of the second part of my sentence was poorly picked.

20

Jim, your point is fair. Maybe we can get Mark Sisson to come in and reference the articles that he might be referring to. It is just one article, but the key points he makes are worth considering if you are an older endurance athlete, interested in optimizing the longevity vs speed tradeoff…

Dev