I must not have paid attention during my college Religion courses else I would have been on the anti-Mormon bandwagon earlier. Just finished Jon Krakaeur’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” about Mormon Fundamentalists (and to a lesser extent the Mormon church): what a bunch of absolute nut jobs.
Colorado City Arizona is a place I have to go see for myself. $5m or so a year (reportedly) in welfare to all the “single” moms with 12 kids from our government, and everyone in the town obeys the town elder? Didn’t we go after the Branch Davidians for similar societal setup?
Based on the foundings of Mormonism, I wonder if Scientology will be viewed as a similar “religion” in 150 years.
Yes, over that sticky little issue called polygamy, however the Mormon church, up until the late 20th century, was not disavowing polygamy, and efforts to prosecute individuals for it have proven deadly (politically speaking). I can’t believe how much power the Mormon church holds over parts of Arizona, and of course Utah.
I just don’t get how people could follow a religion that was started by a thrice convicted scam artist who apparently was visited by an angel & whose Book of Mormon was copied from “magically disappearing” gold tablets.
Yes, I’m paraphrasing here & taking some poetic license, but the point I was trying to make is twofold: how is Mormonism different (in orgin) than Scientology + what sort of self-deluding individual could possibly believe this tripe?
I get faith. I completely understand the creationists (not the non-evolutionists, but the actual creationists), but there are SOOO many factual & scientific fallacies in Mormonism, I just don’t see how millions of people can be that brainwashed.
Based on your post, it seems fairly clear that you (mopdahl) aren’t paying attention now. If you were you’d recognize (admit?) that the so-called “fundamentalist Mormons” never were or are associated with the LDS Church, of which I am a member. The Church has and will excommunicate members who engage in criminal (and immoral) activity. Their association with the Church ends then and there. If those same people join one of the “fundamentalist” groups, that association is an entirely separate issue.
And regarding the term “fundamentalist,” one bit of commentary. Media types and many “everyday” people view anyone with a strict/specific/definite religious viewpoint as being “fundamentalists,” which is always portrayed as negative/oppressive/evil/intolerant/etc. True religion always purports to have Divine origins. And for those who believe their faith has such origins, it would be foolish and deliberately hypocritical to say, “Sure, I believe these doctrines/teachings come from God, but I only want to follow 50% of them. I.E. I believe this church teaches truth, but I’ll only follow what I feel like following.”
Now that would be stupid. If you believe something, then believe it. If you don’t, well, don’t bother. As for your “people are stupid” comment, I suggest looking in a mirror as I presume you are also “people.”
It’s a little harsh to pass judgement based on one man’s writings, don’t you think? I have read excerpts of this book and some of it is very shocking, but I’m not so sure this sect speaks for all mormans.
I am non religious but have had a few close friends who were strongly mormon. I never met a more moderate, tolerant, friendly and non judgemental people outside my own little group of friends. Just my experience though.
That being said, the sect Krakauer is wrote about is supposedly in the news again. Apparently the church elders a kicking all the young boys out of the community. The sad thing is is that they are treating them like abandoned animals and doing things like taking them to the edge of the the edge of the community and then driving away. Leaving these boys with no shelter, support or, it appears, hope.
The church elders say its because the boys were unruly and disobeying their elders. More likely, the elders didn’t want to compete with the boys for their share of the female population. Twisted.
Good definitions of fundamentalist, and yes, our society definitely has a negative image of fundamentalism in religion, whether it be the the Eric Ruldophs of the world in the anti-abortion Christian community, or the followers of Islam who flew planes into buildings.
Getting to the Book of Mormon as a whole: you really believe, that a thrice convicted scam artist who had been persecuted for his criminal dealings was visited by an angel & copied (actually dictated) the gold tablets over a period of 2-3 months and that the Book of Mormon is a directive from God/Heaven?
I never met a more moderate, tolerant, friendly and non judgemental people outside my own little group of friends.
Seems to be the consensus of Krakauer as well, and aside from the knocks on my door during the summer as they spread the word, I’ve never had any (known) dealings with Mormons.
I just find the orgins of their religion suspect at best, and akin to Scientology (not in the beliefs, but the orgins). I’m not thrilled over their control/power of any arm of the government (even at the state level), as they do seem a bit more organized/focused than most. But those are probably just my prejudiced perceptions.
Joseph Smith was neither a scam artist or a criminal of any sort. I can only guess where you gained your information, but checking/considering your sources is always a good idea. One principle to consider: if you want to know what the Catholic church teaches, look to a Catholic priest or official. Don’t ask a Baptist preacher or minister from the Church of England to provide definitive or necessarily correct information on the Catholic church - it isn’t their job or area of expertise. This of course may be applied to any religion.
As for my belief in the Book of Mormon, yes, I believe it to be true. Just as I believe that Jesus died for all and was resurrected. My belief in these and other tenets of my faith are directly related to one rather simple thing: prayer. Prayer and relevation are basic and necessary beliefs of any faith claiming divine inspiration. God has always and always will answer sincere prayer.
Thanks for the opportunity to share a little. I don’t often jump into the forum, preferring to read some posts from time to time. For this particular subject though, I’m a little more willing to jump in and add my $.02. Now back to work.
I believe it 100%. What’s wrong with believing something like that? Have you read the Book of Mormon or studied the Church at all, or are you just blindly criticizing the history of that book and the Mormon church? Are you just going off a book that one dude wrote in an attempt to make some cash, or have you looked at both sides?
As for the arguments against religion and faith, everyone exercises faith. Everyone. If you’re athiest, do you really believe that, by chance, a big bang happened and the world was created, with just the right angles/mineral and chemical combinations/etc. for life to thrive? Isn’t that just as unfathomable as believing in a higher power? If you believe in a higher power, why can’t that higher power visit us earthly inhabitants? If you believe that God spoke to prophets in of the Old Testament or that Jesus was truly the Christ, why can’t you believe that God would communicate with someone in these days as well? To me, it’s not far-fetched at all. Every assumption of these magnitudes require a bit of faith…even for an Athiest. Even beliving that Krackour did the research he claims he did requires faith.
And, to be clear, Krackour (sp?), took one side of every story he told. He was about as unbiased and impartial as I am…he just batted from the other side of the plate. He scoped out every anti-Mormon angle and took it. Before you bash on Mormons, or anyone for that matter, hear what they have to say. You can’t make an educated argument based only on one side. I’m Mormon, and I’ve Krakauer’s book. That book is crap. Pure and simple. He twists every way he can and “reports” what he calls impartial newspapers’ stories (it just so happens that these newspapers were run in the same area where all the mobbers that stormed every Mormon city were situated - hmmmm…truly impartial…right…). But he also fails to report Mormon’s side of the story, which is a polar opposite. His book is no different than the ones I can walk across the street from my office and get from the anti-Mormons who hand out literature in front of Temple Square. If you want to rip on Mormons, then rip away - but at least make an educated argument after listening to both sides of the story.
Where in the Christian religion (bible) is polygamy not allowed?
hey…the 10 Commandments say slavery is cool…just don’t covet your neighbor’s slave, thats not cool.
I believe it 100%. What’s wrong with believing something like that?
I’m not going to get into Mormon bashing (based on the limited research that I’ve done on this, your religion seems to be actively persecuted enough); I guess I just don’t have the God gene that believers seem to have (and some seem to be blessed with either more or mutated genes more than others).
I will say, when you type into Google “Book of Mormon” + Fallacies there are about 10 zillion pages. Somebody certainly has it out for you guys.
Ummm…you’re saying that posting a thread about Mormons and off-shoot sects that is titled in part, “Lets talk about F@#$D Religions” isn’t bashing? What about calling the man who we revere are a prophet a fraud (don’t remember the exact terms you used). Or what about making some wise crack about one of our basic tenents (the gold plates). Or what about your opening line, “I must not have paid attention during my college Religion courses else I would have been on the anti-Mormon bandwagon earlier.” Hmmmm…sounds like you’re way past just starting some Mormon-bashing to me.
I’ll agree that a lot of the fundamentalist Mormon groups are way off, but you were pretty clear in including all Mormons in your rant. There, my friend, you’re mistaken big time. As was mentioned, these fundamentalists, especially the ones Krakauer refers to in his book, are excommunicated Mormons, if they ever were Mormons to begin with. They are not associated with our Church and we don’t have the same beliefs.
Not wanting to start a pissing match, but I can’t sit by and let you bash on me, even if you do try to backpedal…especially when you are WAY off.
I’m not really into religion bashing either but if you’re an evangelical…i.e you actively go out every day with the intention and purpose to convert as many people as you can you your particular brand of religion then you’re fair game for all and any investigation and criticism.
Nobody can dispute that the LDS are just about the most evangelical church out there so it only stands to reason that a lot of people have a lot of questions about the somewhat curious beliefs of Mormons.
If you’re gonna stick your head so far above the parapet you’re asking to get shot at.