With the other thread about aerodynamics, and the seemingly ongoing discussion about where waterbottles should be mounted for best frame/bike/rider aerodynamics, is there any consensus on this? Specifically:
I’ve read the “worst” place for bottles from an aerodynamic perspective is behind the saddle. Is this true? How can this be possible?
Is it really “better” to keep an empty bottle in your cage after you’ve run out of fluid- i.e., the empty is more aerodynamic than just depositing the empty at an aid station and then going with an empty cage?
Any reports on the 4 spoke, scimitar bladed wheels from X-Lab?
Not that I want to remind you of a probably bad memory, but I thought that we were all hoping to get some answers to these questions from your aborted trip to the wind tunnel. I may have missed it if you did update us, but was is the latest on it. Any chance of your rescheduling it?
WHOA! Since when does Mr. Tibbs give straight-up excellent triathlon advice without some cryptic message woven in? I must have crossed over to another dimension!
I was all set to throw away my xlab saddlewing having decided that it was way too heavy, messes up my jetstream, and is not particularly comfortable for me to use. But then I saw that Reid and DeBoom both had them in IMH plus a cage on the downtube really messes up my pretty frame. Damn this infernal conundrum. One interesting thing, though: wonder why that neverreach teardrop thing which claimed to be the most aero while offering ease of aerobar bottle never seemed to take off. probably too hard to top up?
On an unrelated note: best part of NBC IMH coverage: the bowden-kraft dual on the marathon. Worst part: The rest of it. Looks like it was edited by an MTV intern and re-hashed footage from last year although still better than anything else ive ever seen on NBC at 8pm and i hope the ratings were high.
I think many of us spend so much time obsessing over things like bottle placement because we’re mediocre cyclists looking for free speed. At the top levels, these guys could wear those beer-dispensing helmets(you know, the ones with a bottle holder on each side) and still go 25+ mph. Most of the pros I saw had bottles mounted on the seat-back and on the standard mounts.
I still like my camelbak best. Whenever I reach back to get a bottle out of my seat-back holders, I lose balance and damned near fall off. I hope they design a hard sheel aero camelbak that can be refilled Nascar-style. I will be happy to send the cocktail napkin to anyone who wants to build it.
What is aero today will not be aero tomorrow. What was aero yesterday is certainly not aero today, but will be aero again tomorrow. What is aero today, but not aero tomorrow will be aero the day after tomorrow.
the differences aerodynamically are small enough so as not to make this the determining factor.
part of the answer is determined by the sort of frame we’re talking about. if the frame is aerodynamic (meaning, if it really IS instead of is it marketed to be), and if the seat tube does a particularly good job of doing its job, then you’re worse off with a seat tube bottle. otherwise, a seat tube bottle might not hurt you and may even help you.
it’s all sort of moot in my mind, because the drag numbers are not that far apart, which makes the determiner the reasoning behind water bottles at all, to wit, why even have a bottle? oh, yeah, we need fluid. therefore, keep it between the handlebars, because:
A. cobb’s time in the tunnel (perhaps not verified by others, i don’t know) says between the handlebars is best, by a marginal amount.
B. behind the saddle is aerodynamically not good according to cobb’s numbers.
C. behind the saddle is the worst possible place considering the reason that bottles exist, that is, it’s hard to reach back there.
D. they eject out the back.
Between the handlebar’s however,
I. allow for easy access to your fluid without getting out of the aero position,
II. easy ability to refill from a bottle gotten at an aid station.
III. no need to carry around fluid that’s going to get warm before you drink it on a hot day, and
IV. carrying around that extra fluid is just extra weight; why not pick it up at an aid station along the way instead of hauling around with you from the start?
the reason the pros carry the bottles back there is because they MUST (the feel) haul around their own special elixers. that problem is solved by carrying around a pre-mixed bottle that has a concentrated solution of what it is you want to drink. then you refill at an aid station (if it’s an ultra) with pure water and add a few squirts of concentrate.
of course you have to carry your concentrate somewhere, and then you’re back to your conundrum, down, seat, or behind. but that’s only a problem for ultras.
I decided long ago that I’d always use the bottle mounted in front (so-called aero Profile), simply because I could drink so much more easily that way. I’m a klutz at best on a bike, getting out a tube-mounted bottle while racing didn’t work very well. More than once I lost the bottle and wound up with nothing to drink. Rear mounts seem to eject quite frequently too.
Repeated tests on my bike (Trek 2500 with aero-looking down tube but suspect it’s aero in looks only) show I’m much much faster with the front mount than any other way, on a 50-min TT and a hydration rate of 750ml during that TT. The aero effects of the bottle mounting are negligible compared with the other effects generated by having to reach for bottles.
The Where-do-the-water-bottles-go debate, to me, speaks to how gulliable or fashionable triathletes seem to be from top to bottom.
The current TREND is for behind-the-seat, but there is little if any info to indicate that this is best or significantly better.
Long story - but I found myself mid-pack during the bike leg at a large triathlon this past summer. Many people where swerving dangerously all over the road as they reached back behind the seat to grab water. I saw one person get run off the road, numerous center line violations, and a number of almost collisons all because of this. If I was a race offcial or someone with authority on race rules I would ban the behind the seat bottle holders for safty reasons alone. Of course, I would also ban aero-bars after the same experience this past summer, but that’s another whole rant for another day.
