just wanting to see whose legs crapped out the worst on the run leg or have had a similar experience to mine.
Ive gone sub 1hour multiple times in a sprint tri. this weekend i was 4th overall off the bike when it struck…a 9:10 min/mile run average.
Im usually 19-21 mins in the run leg of a sprint tri. personal bests are mile-5:45, five mile-35:30, 10k in an olympic tri-46:00
legs felt horrible, like i just could not run. has anyone had a similar experience? back round info…ive been biking a lot and just started running consistently (+5 times a week) about 2.5 weeks before the tri after focusing heavily on bike races. the tri was a nightmare though. I think i was passed by 40 people during the run
back round info…ive been biking a lot and **just started running consistently (+5 times a week) about 2.5 weeks before the tri **after focusing heavily on bike races.
I think that you’ve answered your own question as to why this happened.
Your times seem to indicate that your run training is lacking in consistency, total volume, or both. Without more information on your training and running history, it’s hard to make specific recommendations.
back round info…ive been biking a lot and **just started running consistently (+5 times a week) about 2.5 weeks before the tri **after focusing heavily on bike races.
I think that you’ve answered your own question as to why this happened.
Your times seem to indicate that your run training is lacking in consistency, total volume, or both. Without more information on your training and running history, it’s hard to make specific recommendations.
This and also you may have over biked (which is so often the case). If you’ve been putting a lot of time on the bike you may have been a bit overconfident on the bike compromised your run. Most likely, as burnman stated, your run is undertrained.
yeah i know the run is undertrained but even undertrained I would think id run at least 8’s. considering 8s feel like a pretty easy pace on a training run. the 9:10 pace felt like i could have been passed by a power walker.
I pretty much did go all out on the bike, but are you supposed to go at 80%, not 95-100%? the last time i felt that slow was running after a hard training crit, so that could very well be the case.
Last point, which doubt it made to much of a difference but I raised my seat a bit the week before. On rides since then i feel it a little more in the hamstrings and my hamstrings have felt significantly tighter afterwards.
back round info…ive been biking a lot and **just started running consistently (+5 times a week) about 2.5 weeks before the tri **after focusing heavily on bike races.
I think that you’ve answered your own question as to why this happened.
Your times seem to indicate that your run training is lacking in consistency, total volume, or both. Without more information on your training and running history, it’s hard to make specific recommendations.
^^^^^^This.^^^^^^^^^^^^
I’m going to assume from your post that you race mostly or exclusively sprints. If so, I would like to know your volume of running. As burnman alluded to - something is off there. My guess you ran too much too close to your race. It is possible, but hard, to overbike a sprint to the point where you can’t throw down a strong 5K given some of your previous times. My guess based on the limited info provided - you trashed your legs with the 5+ runs per week leading up to the race. 5 runs a week or more is a lot for someone doing sprints only unless you are primarily a competitive distance runner who tinkers with tri for cross training. If you can provide more info about your run volume leading up to the race, and how that compares to the months before, we can probably give you some more definitive answers. Best,
yeah i know the run is undertrained but even undertrained I would think id run at least 8’s. considering 8s feel like a pretty easy pace on a training run. the 9:10 pace felt like i could have been passed by a power walker.
I pretty much did go all out on the bike, but are you supposed to go at 80%, not 95-100%? the last time i felt that slow was running after a hard training crit, so that could very well be the case.
Last point, which doubt it made to much of a difference but I raised my seat a bit the week before. On rides since then i feel it a little more in the hamstrings and my hamstrings have felt significantly tighter afterwards.
Sometimes you can put it together coming in undertrained, but other times you just fall apart. I think you answered your own question regarding what happened with your training crit example. A lot of the times it is not just the effort but how the effort was dosed. You are most likely going to be able to run faster if you have a consistent and steady ride versus one with a lot of variability. Let’s say you have NP of 250 with a VI of 1.02 vs NP250 VI 1.17. In the first example your AvgP and NP are going to be basically the same without crazy spikes. The second one is going to have you producing power well over your FTP for possibly extended periods of time (much like a criterium). While both are NP250 the second example will hurt you far worse on the run than the first one.
With regards to intensity, you have to go 100% of what you can produce and still run afterwards. Everyone is individual in that respect. Bricks don’t get a whole lot of love on here, but this is one thing they are good for. Better to find out what you can do in training than have a mall walker pass you in your next race.
Okay so i was running consistently January to May (3-5 times a week) a few long runs thrown in there while training for an olympic tri which was mid may. after that i had a 5 mile run which i did in 35:30.
After that I just focused on upgrading categories in cycling, and succeeded by mid july! From the end of may to mid july i would go a week or two without running and sometimes id run twice a week but always felt decent on the runs.
so like (2-3 weeks ago) i started running about 5 times a week, but short distances 2-4 miles. and doing less mileage on the bike. Then the run leg of the tri happened yesterday…
good advice ex cyclist. I think that was the case, as it was a hard head wind out which i successfully drilled my legs on (i was also on a road bike). I plan on incorporating more bricks into my workouts. Id like to a sprint in 2-3 weeks for redemption and at least a half or olympic later this fall.
Ive gone sub 1hour multiple times in a sprint tri. this weekend i was 4th overall off the bike when it struck…a 9:10 min/mile run average.
Im usually 19-21 mins in the run leg of a sprint tri. personal bests are mile-5:45, five mile-35:30, 10k in an olympic tri-46:00
Run fitness. 46’ 10k doesn’t match up to a 19’ 5k. Should be quite a bit closer regardless of having done a swim/bike before. More mileage, more consistency and you’ll be able to get out of t2 better.
Pardon me if this is a threadjack, but I’m curious…
DougE - You said “5 runs a week or more is a lot for someone doing sprints”. What is a reasonable run volume and frequency for someone looking to do solely Sprint distance and targeting 1h to 1h5m overall time? This assumes a 19m or 20m 5k.
That happened to me yesterday actually, at the Boulder 70.3. Had one of the if not the worst half IM runs since farther back than I can remember. However, I know what the problem was…I have acute extensor tendinitis & ran only 2x the last 2 weeks & I believe (have to check TP log…) about 5 x since IM CDA. So yeah…my run crapped out but I sorta had that coming given the circumstances. Ya just live with it & move on sir!
Don’t think there’s enough data here to be definitive, but I would consider 3 areas from what you’ve said:
1A Undertrained (or “wrong” training) for the run. 1B, unfortunately, would be “overtraining” - I know these two sound like an oxymoron but the key is, did you have at least 10-15 or so quality run workouts WITH ADEQUATE RECOVERY BETWEEN before this race? more is better, but not at the expense of having recovery time between the runs. Presuming it hasn’t been months of coach-potatoing since you’ve run the paces you quoted, 10-15 or so quality workouts should get you within striking distance. “Quality” also can’t mean 10 one mile easy jogs, they would need to contain aspects of the distance, speed, and overall exertion that you expect in the race (though not all of those on each workout)
Overexerted on the bike. Someone with your paces should be running within about 30 sec/mile of 5k pace over the run leg of a sprint. More drop off than that and you’re probably expending more energy than it’s worth on the bike. This can be expressed in terms of % of functional threshold power - but it doesn’t sound like you’ve measured your FTP nor are measuring power output, so I don’t think a % number is going to be helpful to you - so I think you’ll have to determine this through experimentation
Bike fit. that saddle height adjustment could easily have sabotaged your run. I once inadvertently placed my saddle at the incorrect height before a race - maybe about 1/3 inch too high, and it stretched my hammies to the point that my Oly run was more than 10 minutes slower than an identical Oly run a few weeks earlier.
KVN371-
given that this is ST, opinions will differ greatly. However, targeting the time goal you mentioned, and assuming a strong level of overall fitness, I think 3 runs per week is appropriate for someone targeting solely sprints. For that matter, I use three runs per week as a basis for most IM and half training.
But for a sprint focus I would break it down like this:
Long run (up to 10 miles) at an easy pace;
tempo run - example- 2 mile warmup; 4-6 mile repeats at close to race; 2 mile cool down; (every couple of weeks I would switch this up with track work with 400s/800s at top speed / faster than race pace to feel the burn and get lactic)
medium run (4-5 miles) at pace faster than easy but not as fast as tempo.
This is a little over-simplified but this is the general approach I would use for sprints. I hope that helps. Best,
20twende… i dont think its a case of couch potatoing. yesterday i ran about 4 miles at 8min pace and felt fine. in the time off running i cycled a lot (200miles a week)and ran occasionally. but i didnt feel i lost an unbelievable amount of running fitness that would warrant a 27 min 5k. i think it was really a combo of all three, too much too soon especially the week before, going to hard on the bike and raising the seat a little.
