Legitimate eBay auction?

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi,
I won an eBay auction for a P2K a couple of days ago andI am a bit suspicious of foul play. The item in question is #7159054623. At first sight the auction doesn’t look like an obvious scam: the seller has positive feedback for similar items.

After winning the auction I noticed that the invoice listed S&H as $5 more expensive and I e-mailed the seller about it, and also included some other questions. I didn’t receive a reply, only another request for payment. I re-sent my questions and didn’t receive a reply but today noticed that the item has been relisted as item #7159977392
The person running the auction presents himself as Mr Chin, yet some of the e-mails come from Tom Demerly, bikesport@ameritech.net. I e-mailed the latter address but received a somewhat evasive and vague reply.

What do you think - am I being overly paranoid? Has anyone done business with Tom on eBay? Is his handle “standardexport”?
Thanks,
Stefan

2

Are you sure it’s the exact same frame as the original one? If it is Tom D selling it (and I have no idea if it is) maybe he is unloading leftover frames so it’s conceivable that he would have two similar frames. Either way good luck and don’t worry too much yet.

3

On first glance, it does look ok - BUT - Tom’s ebay handle isn’t standardexport. Did you pay via paypal to a verified address? If so, you are protected and can get your money back. I would call Tom’s shop and talk to him or Mike Aderhold (I think that’s his name - he handles the ebay stuff)
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/

There’s many ways to fake an email address. When you emailed the ameritech.net address did you reply or start a new mail altogether - reply would just go to the “hidden” email address.

Good luck with it. I was noticing Mr’ Chin’s auctions earlier this week and something about them didn’t sit right with me.

4

It is the same frame and the seller told me he re-listed it because he didn’t receive payment. I’m not worried yet since I haven’t sent payment, so I’m not out of any money yet.

5

I have done business with Tom D on Ebay, his handle is not the one you have mentioned, it is Bicyclesales, I would be a bit careful about paying especially if the seller won’t answer your questions, I always feel that if they have nothing to hide they’ll answer quickly to get the money.

Good Luck

6

I might have gotten lucky, because the auction listed shipping as $30 but I got an invoice for $35. $5 isn’t much but I decided to shoot the seller a couple of questions before paying. I’m not out of any money yet, since I was waiting to receive a satisfactory reply before paying.

The last e-mail I sent to both the bikesport address and the other e-mail address (a gmail account) and the headers of the reply pretending to come from bikesport looked a bit suspicious, so I decided to check here. Since it’s the weekend, I doubt I can reach anybody at Bikesport, but I sent Tom a private message.

If this is a scam it is a very clever one…

7

Yeah, this smells funky. Send another email asking for a phone number - bet you get a prepaid cel or an excuse as to why he isn’t available.

8

Here is the last e-mail I sent and the reply I received.
I included the headers. Notice how the e-mail pretending to be from Tom is actually sent from the yahoo.com domain. I’ve sanitized my address for privacy reasons so it’s listed as me@mymailhost.com

Return-Path: bikesport@ameritech.net
Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
)
by mymailhost (8.12.10/8.12.9) with SMTP id
j4TLui60010768
for me@mymailhost; Sun, 29 May 2005 17:56:45 -0400 (
EDT)ived: from unknown (HELO BS1) (bikesport@ameritech.net@68.255.241.99
with login)
by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2005 21:56:44 -0000
Message-ID: 000a01c56499$53764180$0200a8c0@BS1
From: “Tom Demerly” bikesport@ameritech.net
To: “Stefan” me@mymailhost
References: 934317709.1117400665836.JavaMail.ebayapp@sj-v3conta09
Pine.GSO.4.58.0505291705290.7830@mymailhost
Subject: Re: Response to your question for eBay item #7159977392 - NEW!
Cervelo P2K frameset/carbon fork 55cm.
Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 17:56:53 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;

    format=flowed;
    charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=0.11.2
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on
mymailhost
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=4.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,OFFERS_ETC
autolearn=no version=2.63

-The auction is legitimate.
-The seatpost is not included. Only what is shown in the auction.
-This is an E-Bay auction sale, unaffiliated with any other party.
-Payment is by PayPal.
----- Original Message -----
From: “Stefan” me@mymailhost.cpm
To: chandlerbikegarage@gmail.com
Cc: bikesport@ameritech.net; me@mumailhost.com
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Response to your question for eBay item #7159977392 - NEW!
Cervelo P2K frameset/carbon fork 55cm.

Hi,
yes I received the invoice but sent you a few questions and never received
a reply. I’m definitely interested in the frame and willing to pay for it,
but noticed that the shipping listed in the invoice was higher than the
shipping listed in the auction. Just a small nit but I thought it was
something you could easily take care of.

I also sent you a few more questions and never got a reply (here they are
again):

  • I know the seatpost is not included, is there anything else missing that
    originally comes with a new frameset (e.g. BB cable guide, seattube
    collar, cable stops, dropout set screws etc…) The reason that I’m
    asking is that I want to order everything I might need from cervelo
    together with the seatpost…

  • I don’t know if you can answer that, but do you know which seatpost
    would be appropriate for a saddle height of around 77-79 cm (bb-c to
    top of saddle). My guess would be large?

I was also confused by being contacted by two different e-mail
addresses/persons: Mr Chin and Tom Demerly. I know Tom Demerly runs
Bikesport, a renowned tri store in Michigan and was worried if Mr Chin
actually works there or if this is a case of impersonation common on the
Internet. Since it’s the weekend I assumed that there was no point in
calling the store at 313-278-1350. I’d be happy to give you a call at a
number you might be reached at.

Anyways, hopefully I am just being overly paranoid. Please get back to
me so we can sort this out,
Stefan

9

I just received another e-mail. Note how Mr Chin and Tom Demerly all of a sudden became Kyle and Suzy:

From: Kyle and Susy’s Bike Garage chandlerbikegarage@gmail.com
To: Stefan me@mymailhost.com
Subject: Re: Response to your question for eBay item #7159977392 - NEW!
Cervelo P2K frameset/carbon fork 55cm.

The administrator of the auction does not wish to offer further information
other than what is contained in the item description.

You may:

-Review the item description on E-Bay.
-Pay for the item as described in the auction information using PayPal.
-Elect to forfeit the item, it has already been relisted. In the event you
elect to pay, the currently running auction will be cancelled.

Pleases remember that the auction administrator and seller are not abliged
by any rules to disclose information not contained in the item description,
and that attempts to extract this information will be reported to E-Bay.
Your decision to bid must be based only on the information provided in the
item description.

10

This is waaaaay funnnnkaaay… But, I’m gonna guess it’s something else. I’ve seen a few times where some scumbags get a load of stolen whatevers (music equipment, computers, bike gear…) - sometimes they have some kind of “in” from a place of work.

I work for a large computer company and at one time did some fraud prevention. We had some people in the warehouse nabbing some of the goods and then selling them on ebay.

Now, you may in fact get a P2K. BUT - the fact that Mr Chin is going to such lengths to hide himself (and even use the good name of ole Tom) means that he’s up to no good. He may have the item in question - but how did he get it? Frankly, i’ll bet you that P2K frame that he (or she or it - whatever) is a total piece of crap crook.

11

Whoa - and check him getting all aggro with the “attempts to extract this information will be reported to E-Bay”

Send all the imformation to the ebay fraud email address. He’s impersonated 2 ebay auctioneers with fake emails.

I swear, I hate crooks.

12

I won’t be getting this P2K since at this point I have no intention of paying for it :slight_smile:
The questions is, should I report this to eBay? Technically the only potentially illegal practice was trying to impersonate Bikesport/Tom by sending me e-mail that fakes its origin. I think the stolen goods theory might be a viable one since it is possible that the positive feedback is from people who received the goods.

13

Identity theft is a crime. Representing yourself as someone else in the form of any correspondance or otherwise is considered identity theft.

Report him.

14

There is a way to get contact info for an ebay member if you have won an auction. I don’t remember exactly but you can get their phone number and address in exchange for the giving the seller your phone number. I did it last year when the seller’s email went down. Give it a try and then report it to eBay fraud.

15

You’re scaring me big time. I bid on the P3 SL that went for $1,585.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7159457746&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Funny photos of the frame. 5 of the bike, and one of “Mr. Chin” flipping steaks on the grill with a drink in one hand and a cig hanging out the corner of his mouth.

http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/26/ac/5b_12_sb.JPG

I looked at all of the feedback and it did all look legit. The only funny thing was how fast the feedback got posted. It was a few days later. By the time I usually pay pal, the item is shipped and I get the goods, it is a good week before I post feedback.

I also remember the very first Kyle and Suzie items. I think they used Tom’s photos and as I followed up a few weeks later, “they” did start accunulating feedback.

Well the mystery continues.

16

Have P2Ks ever been available in a 55cm for 700C? You and some friends or alternate ebay identities could easily create bogus positive feedback for items you only sell in cyberspace.

This reeks of scam. You should email/pm Tom Demerley and let him know that his name is being used illegally. I’d also let eBay know. If you’re every out money, go to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center:

http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

17

Here’s the deal guys-

Sometimes customers buy something from me, and then sell it on E-Bay. It is their property, plain and simple, over and done with. I don’t controls that. If they choose to do so, they can. I cannot stop them.

As a retailer, I am prohibited from selling on E-Bay by bicycle companies, so I do not.

My customers do use E-Bay extensively. For reasons that are their own, they decide to do so.

If you want to shop in a retail store, please visit my store.

If you want to shop on E-Bay, you’re on your own guys… Bring me your bike when you get it and I’ll be happy to do a fitting.

18

Then who is bicyclesales?

19

Hmmmm,
The second auction has just been removed by the seller.

So Tom do you recognize Mr Chin, as a customer?

20

The P2K was available in a 55 700c. This year the P2K comes in a 56 instead.