If you are in the habit of giving away your money to buy a more expensively priced item, would you mind sending me a few extra dollars.
The baristas at your local coffee shop must love to see you walk away from an empty tip jar.
Why was his recommend of another shop a âfate sealerâ? Did he have an account with Lemond?
It seems like he was doing you a favor recommending a competitor so you could buy there for convenienceâŚ
X2 that should seal the deal. Any shop that cares enough about getting you what you want to recommend a competitor deserves some respect.
Even after the owner inked a deal to carry said products? I went in to put my money down on the ownerâs first order. It almost took an act of God to get the store manager off his ass to see when they would be in. Instead of telling me it would be a few weeks (which I was willing to wait) he sent me to another shop. The vast majority of the local bike shops around here canât be bothered to sell anything but the most popular brands for exorbitant prices (typically 10 to 15 percent over MSRP). I donât mind paying retail as long as I get some service to go with it. Iâll be damned if I am going to pay more than retail and not get any service for the extra money.
It is more of a pain in the ass to order stuff online, but, why should I pad the wallets of the LBSs when they do a shitty job?
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waitâŚ10-15% OVER msrp?
How on earth are they around?!?!
waitâŚ10-15% OVER msrp?
How on earth are they around?!?!
Beats the shit out of meâŚ
College town I guessâŚ
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Iâm pretty slow. Donât know what you mean.
F the LBS. But then I do not have a good one anyhow. They tend not to stock anything I want. Oh you can order it? Yeah me too and it will just come to my house and I will not have to drive over here again and pay more. If I need a shop for something I usually need a good shop and drive the 3 hours up to one. I only go there maybe a couple times a year, maybe once a year when I need something. Either they are just cool or I have paid/tipped well enough when I have gone there that they always seem to have time for me and do a great job. Oh yeah and mechanics like CASH. They can turn that into beer themselves if they want to.
If you do purchase parts online, be prepared to mount and maintain them yourself. If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.
Really? I would think a local bike shop would love to service those bikes and parts bought online. I seriously doubt they would turn down that business. I would guess thereâs a much greater margin on service than on selling parts.
Where in KC? Which shops do you not want to buy from?
I moved here in July so Iâm just trying to get info on where to go/stay away from
I havenât had any bad experiences with shops in KC, I just prefer the convenience and price that I get online.
If you do purchase parts online, be prepared to mount and maintain them yourself. If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.
Really? I would think a local bike shop would love to service those bikes and parts bought online. I seriously doubt they would turn down that business. I would guess thereâs a much greater margin on service than on selling parts.
Shops that shy away from working on bikes/parts ordered from online are stupid. The margins are pretty low on bike stuff, to the point that theyâll probably make more on labor installing/fixing the parts than they would have selling them. And even if thatâs not the case, people ARE going to buy stuff online, no matter what- why would they want to turn away overhead-free business?
I can totally understand your temptation to buy online vs. buying at your local bike shop. However, there are a lot of assumptions people make that lead them to think that their LBS is gouging them on pricing.
Bikes. Unlike the average world of retail, bikes are not on a âkeystoneâ (100% mark up) basis. The margin on bikes (of any good quality) usually depends on the volume relationship that the LBS has with that manufacturer and at BEST that falls somewhere between 15 and 30% under the best volume circumstances. You sell more of that manf. bikes you get a better margin but that margin depends on the selling of 100âs of bikes per year not just a few. When you are a small LBS going up against a mass merchandising company that runs deep online âbike packageâ deals its almost impossible for the LBS to make money on bikes because the volume/margin parameters. I am sure it is also not lost on anyone that when you buy a bike from an LBS you are starting a long standing relationship with that shop. I know that my shop offers lifetime adjustments on any bike we sell as long as there is no flagrant neglect or accident damage involved, are you going to get that from an online bike shop?
Gear. So now you know the secret, bike shops make very little money on what they are known for selling (bikes). This leaves most LBSâs and Tri shops only one place where they can make any money to keep their doors open and pay their employeeâs and that is knowledgeable labor (the mechanic), knowledgeable staff, gear and accessories (ie: clothing and everything else that is secondary market for your bike) and even then most shops are still offering discounts. I can count on one hand the amount of legit sellers of real gear there are on Ebay. Yes, there are online retailers that are totally legitimate dealers of different vendors but I promise you they arenât the ones offering basement prices on that Pearl Izumi long sleeve jersey your thinking about buying. Companies like Real Cyclist and Performance Bike (both of whom also have brick and mortar stores) are able to offer better deals on items because of the volume they handle, not because theyâre selling you crap knock offs. AND if you were to take a copy of that online item from one of those legitimate dealers to your LBS I am sure they (like us) would offer to match the price of the item just to have your business. I canât speak for other shops but I bend over backwards for my customers because I want their business every chance I can get it even if it means matching a price here and there.
Parts. When you buy parts online you run a number of risks. Counterfeit parts are very common on the internet and you take a heck of a chance buying them, not to mention life and limb if that part fails you and you get injured. As a tri shop we donât discriminate against people bring parts in, but you will pay full chart labor for the work, the parts will not be guaranteed and we will not handle warranty issues for you in the future should something go wrong with that part. The benefit of getting your parts at an LBS is? If you buy a part from us (I speak only for my shop), it will be ordered to fit correctly (no guessing), it will be installed correctly at a lower labor rate (if any at all) and we will warranty that part, period. I mean really? Would you seriously to take for granted that the âFSAâ chain rings you got such a great rock bottom deal on on the internet wonât fail when its you riding on the road with 6000+ pounds vehicles all around you? Lets just say that knock off Coach purses are not the only thing coming out of the far east and unlike a purse this is something your hanging your safety and life on and a potential counterfeit part failure is a BAD option whether your racing that day or just out for a training ride.
Knowledge and reputation. A good LBS can at times be very hard to find, but those shops who specialize in serving the triathlon and racing community (like ours) have narrowed their business focus to the point of exclusion of nearly every other type of cyclist. So we pride ourselves not only on the items and bikes that we stock but the level of knowledge our staff possesses and shares with our customers. In our shop we are all competitors of some field within our realm of business. We have marathoners, cyclists, triathletes and legit pro riders on our staff because we believe that selling to new and experienced competitors comes only with the credibility of being a competitor of some level yourself. I know I personally would have a hard time buying a tri-bike from someone who couldnât explain the fundamental differences between the bikes that they sell and the components and materials theyâre made of. Weâre very lucky⌠because in our shop there is often a certain light bulb moment when someone new to triathlon comes in looking for a bike and we actually take the time to explain why buying a P3 before theyâve done so much as a sprint probably isnât the best idea. Our motto is âfind the right gear for the athleteâ (including bikes) because if someone feels as though they have been gouged then they will quickly become like some of the âf**k the LBSâsâ people who have already commented on this thread. And even though triathlon, marathon and cycling are all singular competitive sports very few people have much luck or growth going it alone when they first start out and THIS is where a shop like ours has the opportunity to save a new athlete a lot of money along the way just by sharing experience. We constantly have free clinics from âbasic bike maint for newbiesâ to âhow not to get lost in transitionâ because we want our local athletes to be successful and have a chance at working hard and making it onto our sponsored local athletes team. Honestly, if you know enough about your bike and how to work on it yourself then good on you!! Youâve obviously learned enough over time that you should have the confidence to buy parts online, install them and ride them with confidence ⌠but if you donât and you go into an LBS and pump their staff for their knowledge and then turn around and buy online⌠thatâs just plain rude.
Culture. If consumers continue to buy on the internet vs. dealing with their local bike shops there will come a time when there will be no shop in your area. Which usually means a loss of the bike culture that went along with that shop and the wealth of knowledge that the employeeâs possessed. The closing of an LBS usually equals a loss of group rides coordinated by that shop (and all the social opportunities for all levels of riders), races sponsored by said shops and the âcome on give tri a tryâ support that new athletes need to get started. more basically, the loss of a good LBS means ultimately no one to work on your bike when you taco a wheel or bust your fork⌠be honest, how many people do you know that have a crown race tool in their garage? I know only one.
So yes, you do have a choice of where to buy an item, but you need to really take into account what you are doing to your local bike shops health and the biking culture it provides your area when you take an opportunity out of their hands to take care of you and the biking community at large over the long term.
~LBB
Totally disagree with the ideology that underpins your post.
In modern capitalism, your job as a consumer is to spend your money as wisely as you choose fit. Your job is not âto supportâ this or that store. Your job is to get the biggest bang for your hard earned cash, that you can.
My best example of this is buying a set of wheels, a few years ago. Store A sold me some low quality shimano race wheels, assuring me they would be fine for my largish body. They werenât. I kept breaking spokes. Took the wheels back to them dozens of times to get the things fixed - I was a newbie, and just didnât know any better.
Finally went in there for a refund, and guess what: out of business.
Jumped online that day and ordered some Mavics, that had to be shipped from the UK to NZ, for 50% of the best price I could have got here. I have heaps of other examples of stores essentially assuming that consumers are too stupid to know how cheaply goods can be attained.
The stores are not trying to âsupportâ you. They are trying to get your money. End of story. Most retailers could give a fat ratâs about you. Shop where your dollar goes furthest.
If you want to support a cause, then give to charity, help out at a shelter, do whatever the hell you like, really.
Shopping is not charity, shopping is war.
The margins are pretty low on bike stuff, to the point that theyâll probably make more on labor installing/fixing the parts than they would have selling them. And even if thatâs not the case, people ARE going to buy stuff online, no matter what- why would they want to turn away overhead-free business?
Hang on, either the margin on parts is high for the LBS in which case people complain they are being unrealistic and shop online, or they are trying to match those prices (but with way way higher overheads and lower volume discounts) and then people complain that the labour rates to build a bike are $300.
Iâve pretty much stopped using LBSes over the ast few years for several reasons.
- The LBS doesnât stock what I need, and they take 2 weeks to get it in, I can get it delivered next day off the web.
- I go in to try to buy something specific. Shop worker / owner argues with me and tells my I want something else.
- The things I buy are high end ânicheâ products. Itâs not economic for the LBS to stock them.
- I work long hours during the week. Getting to the LBS is not easy and if somethings broken / needed for a weekend then I donât want to wait a week for it. Even inner tubes are easier to get online as they are at my desk the next day. I say this even though I live 300m from a bike shop, but if I get a puncture and use a tube, then I still want it by 7am on Saturday when I go on my weekend ride.
- Iâve invested in the tools myself as a result of the delay to get the bike into the shop.
- I did use the LBS to get a BB out of a second hand frame that Iâd not managed to budge after an hour of trying. They broke a park tool wrench trying to get it out, but did in the end. They tried charging me $10. I pointed out this was bonkers as Iâd tried for an hour, theyâd saved me a frame, and had written off $100 of tools. I had to argue for them to charge more.
- Instead of buying a frame & power meter online for 50% of advertised price, I bought from a bricks and mortar shop and split the difference (ie 75%). So some discount but still some good margin in there for them as it was all secial order (ie no cash tied up in stock). The shop is a 3 hour drive away. Power meter broke and I got a snotty call because Iâd tried support direct with the manufacturer, then a snotty email and finally they charged me postage to return the repaired meter. Hmm, so remind me why I didnât just buy online and why I spent $6.5k with them?
I think the days of the traditional bike shop for âour stuffâ are numbered. And thatâs not a large number. Sure there will be LBS that sell the high volume stuff - mainstream MTB, commuter and mid level road. But the future for buying and servicing top end road & tri is a very small number of boutique shops that incorporate the full range of manufacturers / parts suppliers and is mixed with bike fit, power/blood lactate testing, etc. Itâs the additional services that will make it sustainable. Sadly it means that it will be harder for those not in the main urban areas to be able to get âhands onâ. So perhaps there will be more emphasis on travelling stores at events / races / demo days.
Totally disagree with the ideology that underpins your post.
In modern capitalism, your job as a consumer is to spend your money as wisely as you choose fit. Your job is not âto supportâ this or that store. Your job is to get the biggest bang for your hard earned cash, that you can.
This is exactly what I teach my economic students. Itâs not really limited to capitalism since any economic system, shy of command, benefits when the consumer acts in their best interest. Sometimes this can be hard to grasp for non-economic minds. But remember, every dime you spend is income to somebody else. You spend it wisely, more people earn money. This is all chapter 1 stuff.
The intangible is how much value one puts on a LBS. I just bought new snowboard gear and paid $40-$50 more at my local shop than online. To me that was reasonable. When I built my mountain bike, I bought the frame from LBS but all components online. Savings of $1200. Although all the components were special order (thus no inventory carry), they still would not budge from MSRP. Thus zero profit was better than no profit.
In the internet age, Iâve learned to wrench my bike via youtube and forums. There isnât anything I canât do, although in some cases Iâm just not going to pay for tools (headset press, etc). There are times Iâll drop it off at my LBS to work on it if Iâm too busy.
In being in retail for over 30 years. Running the acces, bike order and clothing side of a shopâŚYour model is based for âmostâ stores that worked on a philosophy that is not around in âmostâ shops any more.
In all business it used to be that a professional was one who used his knowledge and expertise to help the customer and consequently you would keep their business. This is how Chamber of commerce started in communities ectâŚAs a professional it was my job to do the best for You, and that is why I was payedâŚSadly this is no longer the case in âmostâ businesses today. Including retail LBSâs. Now as a professional I get paid to use my knowledge to what is best for the business, not the customer. You would think it would be the same but it is not. Most business today are 100% focused on the sale numbers for âTodayâ not later. Not return customers ect⌠Its sales goal driven on Todays numbers. Pressure on employees for Todays sales. Performance reviews and metrics for todayâŚThere is no loyalty to long term customers.
Now their are still local LBSâs that have the best for the customer at heart, but they have dropped in the minority, sadly. If you have one of those I believe it is wise to spend your money there, it will actually save you in thelong termâŚBusiness and customers do not think long term anymore thoughâŚMy 2cents Kenney
I am 50 / 50. It all comes down to how soon I need it. I certainly dont need my LBS but it is nice to go there and get what I want right away. Money is usually not a factor but attitude is.
In being in retail for over 30 years. Running the acces, bike order and clothing side of a shopâŚYour model is based for âmostâ stores that worked on a philosophy that is not around in âmostâ shops any more⌠Business and customers do not think long term anymore thoughâŚMy 2cents Kenney
Isnât that sad? If you listen to all the negative Nancyâs on here you would think that their LBSâs are trying to steal from them and maybe for some thatâs a reality. Granted, no shop can carry everything for every athlete⌠but rather than trying to carry everything in stock we have established strong relationships with almost all Triathlon vendors out there and can usually get anything in short order time, we also make the effort to drop ship items to clients from our vendors when there is a time concern. We also have a dedicated buyer (me) that handles all ordering (including special orders) from start to finish with an average of 2-4 e-mails on average letting a client know when their part or gear was ordered, when it will be delivered and when its in. In short I may not carry TYR wetsuits in stock but if you know what you want and what size you need I can have it to you in days not weeks and I am going to guarantee that wetsuit to be free of defects and take care of any warranty issues for you should any arise. You will rarely get that from an online store that doesnât have brick and mortar store affiliation. Also, a lot of the vendors (like Cervelo, Specialized and other) are now stone walling non B & M businesses from carrying their products.
We pride ourselves on our customer service and commitment to getting the best bang for the buck for all of our athletes and we pay as much attention to our 5K athletes as much as we do our Iron distance athletes⌠but then again we donât have the problems that most people have outlined on this thread. Our return business is greater than 65% and I believe its because we give our all, even to people we know are leaching us for info.
~LBB
Yes it is sad.
Sound like you have a great place. One I would like to work at. When I left the shop I was at, I had an old mgr give a letter of recommendation of how I helped a customer, when it meant buying someplace elseâŚSaid it was rare.
When I moved where I am now there were 4 shops. I went to each one and played dumb. I had a 6 month old Klein with ultegra, 1800 miles and I keep my drivetrain spotless. I told each shop that I thought preventive maintainance was important and asked what I would need done by spring. Told them bike had 1800 on it. First 3 did not look at the bike. First one said I would need a new chain and cassette, maybe cables. Second shop said I should replace chain, chainrings cassette and bottom bracket, Third shop said with a bike that nice would need at least the $70.00 chaina nd maybe cables. Fourth shop. Guy grabbed the bike (first one) measured the chain, cassette. Through it in the stand and in a couple of minutes saidâŚYou need nothing. Guess who has been my bike mech for ten years. But that is one out of 4.
A shop like yours for most people, would save money in the long term by doing business with. Even if on some items they pay more, with your expertise they would save in the long term . Time is moneyâŚHowever, as bad as many business do not have customer loyaltyâŚcustomers are just as bad as having no loyalty to the shop either. Symbiotic relationships do not exist muchâŚI wish I was by your shop. Kenney
I see your profile , you love your Pinarello
100_0342http://www.flickr.com/photos/kenneyc59/ hereâs mine
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The more proficient a wrench I become, the more I support my LBS. Sounds counter-intuitive eh? But I am more willing (and able) to spend $ on parts at the LBS, and having done some of the trickier tasks, I also know when itâs better to defer to the shopâs wrench. I am also becoming pickier in my parts, so dollar for dollar, I probably spend more per year at my LBS than I did oh 5-10yrs ago when I was a n00b.
I like being able to support the local shop, so that when I see them at a community event, they know me and my family by name, and what we ride, and even what races weâre doing/have done. We always get a discount, and we get 50% back on our kidâs bikes when we trade up sizes. They love having our dog visit, and are super awesome with our kids. Our shop has been in our community for a long time, since 1932, and itâs been owned the entire time by the same family. How many LBSs like that are left today? Itâs the shop where I bought my first road bike, after seeing âAmerican Flyersâ as a 13yo and wanting to race bikes⌠I still remember my dad nearly fainting at the price ($500?!? What?!?). Hahaha.
Call me old fashioned but I prefer to support local businesses, and my LBS is one of them. My history with them makes it easy to do so.
AP
Call me old fashioned but I prefer to support local businesses, and my LBS is one of them. My history with them makes it easy to do so. AP
And trust me we appreciate customers just like you in our shop.
We get no bigger thrill than watching our newbies train and race, mature and race even faster âŚ
Heck our whole staff spent the last two Saturdays following 3 of our local athletes at Beach 2 Battleship and Ironman FloridaâŚ
Athlete 1. did his first full distance in only his second season of racing in a blazing 10:03:37 (35-39 division).
Athlete 2. did his first full in a very cool 10:45:00 (40-45 division).
Athlete 3. one of our long time local racers put in a 5:29:40 (45-49 division) in some of the worst conditions he has ever raced in (and I concur with that description because I was working at that race).
Each year we have a customer and vendor appreciation night and I am looking forward to acknowledging these athletes amazing efforts. We truly feel when our local athletes succeed, we succeed and we do that much more to help them push to the next level.
We just arenât your average triathlon shopâŚ