I got a ticket yesterday on a ride for STOPPING at a stop sign. 3 of us were going along, 1 cruised thru an intersection at reduced speed, 2 of us came to a complete stop, foot down the whole thing. A cop was there and pulled us over. He then proceeded to lecture us while writing THREE tix for ONE guy running a stop sign. Then while in conversation the cop made some sort of homosexual comment “You ain’t one uh them ‘funny’ types r ya?”.
Since a rider’s recent death I think the cops are looking at eliminating or seriously reducing the bicycle traffic in that area. He went n to tell us about the mental anguish the family is enduring after the Mom hit Gary (cyclist), incinuating it was our (cyclists in general) fault. Also, he talked about how he was first on the scene that day and initially thought a driver had finally had ‘enough’ and plowed thru the whole group.
What can I do about this? We told the cop who went thru the stop (he couldn’t identify the perp), who stopped and put feet down, the whole 9. He went on to snicker and tell us we could put a foot down at 10mph, that all forward motion must cease (which it did). We were several yards behind the guy who ran the stop sign. Admittedly, we saw the cop. Therefore, we over-accentuated our stop. The bummer is, we were riding with a DPD guy not very long before all this…but we dropped him (sigh). Never a cop around when you need 'em, never.
It is going to suck, but like most tickets, if you take it to court it should get thrown out. That is, if the policeman doesn’t show up. It is going to come down to your word against his, and unless there is some type of video evidence there isn’t much you can do.
I would find another route and stay away from Deliverence country. Good luck and at least wear a coat and tie to court. First impressions, even in traffic court, make a difference.
I’m not a lawyer, but I’d fight it. Since you have witnesses, you should be successful, and be sure to tell the judge about the cop’s statements. It will show that the cop was predisposed to give you a ticket based on a prior event. Good luck.
BTW, I just got a ticket (out of state) for going 34 in a 30 mph zone (in my car). The cop pulled over behind me, saw my out of state tag, and pulled me over. He claimed he “paced” me at 45, but told me he’d give me a break and only write me up for 40.
As much as I believe in being a law-abiding citizen, I do believe there are individuals in law enforcement and regulatory agencies who are egomaniacs. That is why I feel the government which governs least governs best.
Show up at court. Be your own lawyer. Grill the cop over everything he said, he say etc. Rephrase the same question over and over again, trying to elict a different response. When the judge tries to intimidate you, thank him for the comments but remind him that you are the one presenting the case and you will present it in your own way and that the judge should expect that it will take atleast another hour. Ask about the homosexual comment. Ask about every comment. Ask about cyclists. Ask about his knowledge of the recent death. Ask who he thinks was at fault. Ask, ask, ask. He is under oath. Take full advantage of it.
This might work, it might not. But you will feel better for having dished it out instead of just taking it.
Get discovery. Get a copy of the police report or the narrative that the officer wrote that describes the offense. You may be able to get this from the cop or the DA/city attorney (whoever is prosecuting). Does it state that 3 cyclists ran the intersection? Or only one?
If you want to go to trial you may want a jury. You may not have a right to a jury in your state - I have no idea. In my state you must pay 36 bucks to get a jury of six people. This is probably not helpful. Usually, I choose to have a jury where there is some emotion that you need to play on. Here you probably have a simple legal argument that a judge can hear.
Remember that the state/county/city has the burden. If the cop saw ONE biker go through the light, and said that in the report/narrative, but at trial cannot identify which one, then you should all win (in a perfect world). If the cop wrote that one of three ran the sign, then your friend testifying that he is the one who ran it should be adequate. However, if the cop wrote that THREE cyclists ran the sign - but he is lying, well, you are probably screwed. In the county I practice in, few jusges will believe the defendant over the cop.
FINALLY, why is it that so many cyclists DO INDEED RUN INTERSECTIONS? I see it all the time. Fancy bikes, colorful jerseys, whole groups of them - and they just blow through sign, light whatever. IT BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME AND I DON’T EVEN RESPOND TO THESE FATALITIES! I kind of feel for the cop.
You want to know why cyclists run stop signs. Well, I do not know why others do, but I do because I have had many incidents where a car comes from behind and hits me/my rear tire when I do stop.
My opinion is forget the ticket, go after the cop. He obviously hates cyclists and apparently homosexuals. Its instiutionalized biased against cyclists that encourages people to commit violence against them. In many people’s minds, when a cyclist angers them (by merely riding, and forcing the car to go around them), they desire a sort of revenge. Normally one would dismiss this urge, but in an anti-cyclist society, those feelings are encouraged, and an indiviual might come to see a cyclist as less than human, and see violence towards them as justifiable. Many times i have been riding on a road with wide lanes, or even a dedicated bike lane, and had cars swerve into me, usually while honking and giving me the finger. I doubt they would react to me if they met me anythere else, but the second i dawn my spandex pants and clip into my bike i become less of a person. Here in Baltimore, we recently had a cyclist beaten nearly to death for no obvious reason. If you havent noticed, this sort of hatred of cyclists really pisses me off. “He went n to tell us about the mental anguish the family is enduring after the Mom hit Gary (cyclist),” This line pisses me off the most. A guy dies, and everyone is concerned not about his family, but about the woman who killed him. Boo-f***in-hoo, I hope she feels like crap, she killed someone! Maybe not on purpose, But if someone was playing with a gun, and shot someone, people wouldnt step over the victims body to console the perp, “its ok, you didnt mean to kill him… Dont worry” Grrrrrrr. Sorry for the rant, but idiocy and bias angers me to no end.
I agree with you to a degree about people being annoyed with us. However, I also sympathize with the woman who hit Gary. It was a freak accident. He actually fell in the other lane right in front of her. No fault of hers whatsoever. It was the fault of some slick pavement that took several guys down.
Well that’s probably not such a great idea, now that I re-read wht I type.
Fight in court like others suggest.
TriDork
p.s. FWIW, I stop at all stop signs and lights…every time. I commute 1/2 hour each way to work and back. I train in the evenings and on weekends. I race intermittantly. I stop at stop signs and lights every time, (except at race controlled intersections).
When I stop at redlights with ground loops (to detect the presence of cars) that don’t detect cyclists. I stop, look around to see if a car will trip the ground loop before the next light change. If a car does come, I follow the rules and proceed when it’s my turn. If no car to trip the lights, I proceed when it’s safe and no inconveniece to the other traffic with the right of way.
I have no idea why cyclists run red lights or stop signs. I’ve never had a decent explanation of that one.
“why is it that so many cyclists DO INDEED RUN INTERSECTIONS? I see it all the time.”
They’re probably the same in their cars. My observation is that about 80-90% of people in cars do not come to a complete stop at stop signs. Why would they be any different on their bikes?
Sorry about the ticket. Were you the only one ticketed?
i’m a lawyer…albeit in a different country. you have to ask yourself is it worth fighting it? how much was the ticket for? i’m not sure how traffic offences operate over there (im not even sure how they operate here! hah), but can you write in explaining the situation without having to go to court? i got a few parking tickets a couple of years ago and i was able to explain myself out of those.
if u do want to fight it, try and be your own lawyer yourself (instructing a lawyer vs fine = prob not worth it). cross examine the police officer who ticketed you. put your questions in such a way that they implicate the answer you want.
ie. only one guy ran the stop sign didn’t he?
you said you thought we might be one of those funny types didnt you?
we came to a complete stop at the stop sign didnt we?
you have it in for cyclists dont you? (this should have several questions building up to it, dealing with his attitude towards you and your pals)
etc etc.
it does sound pretty ridiculous to get ticketed for what u did.
on another note a glass bottle was thrown at a tourist cycling nz in january. fully hit her…they got the culprits too. i dont see why people are so impatient around cyclists. trucks can be bloody bad!
I agree cyclist are very bad ie running stop signs and motorist are guilty also. One problem we have in oklahoma is a stop sign almost every mile. This gets irritating when your trying to get a good workout in. Myself I stop probably more tham most cyclists or at least come to a hesitant slow down occ. doing a semi trackstand and actually signaling cars to go ahead. I have been riding with people that blow thru a stop sign with a car having the right of way and you can see the frustration anger etc in their faces and understand why. When that happens I just want to crawl under a rock.
I had a long discussion about cyclist running stop signs and came to a few conclusions compared to autos stopping.
Autos are not required to stay off the freeways. For longer distances they are not required to stop and start dozens of times as cyclists are. They can drive hundreds of miles with no stops required except to get to the freeway then a mile or so after exiting the freeway.
Auto drivers do not have to self propel themselves back up to speed after each stop as cyclist do. I think this has a lot more to do with cyclist running stop signs.
Autos can cause much more damage to another car or cyclist than a cyclist can cause to an auto or another cyclist.
I would guess that just as many motorist run stop signs as cyclist if you are talking about 100% complete stops. The difference is that the cyclist may slow down from 15 MPH to 5 MPH and the auto slows down from say 40 MPH to 5 MPH so it looks like they have made much more of an effort to stop but each is actually going thru at the same rate.
What you posted should be on video tape… conversation and all. It’s possible that Internal Affairs officers would be interested.
While this MAY not solve your ticket problem… it could open up a whole nother can of words. Depends upon how much time and energy you put into it… I did something like this - once. About $2,000 and about a zillion hours of wasted time later, I won. And, I never filed a civil suit. Instead, I did something that is unusual… I did it because it was the right thing to do.
I have no idea what your criminal/traffic courts are like; but, legally it is shooting fish in a barrel. The officer actually did you all a favor by ticketing all 3! Now, you are all defendants and can’t be forced to testify. Part of the prosecutor’s burden is to identify, exactly, who committed the offense and Unless the prosecution can identify the person who actually did run the stop sign, all three would be dismissed. If he only ticketed 1 or 2 of you, the non-ticketed rider (s) could be called as a witness (es) to identify and testify to the crime. As co-defendants you can’t be compelled to testify. Make sense?
Here, it would cost $250-500 to hire a lawyer to try this traffic case.
BTW, here folks with a last name beginning with N through Z (you are P, Pillers, right) have visiting days at the county jail on Tue and Thurs; so, if you get convicted and they throw away the key we’ll come visit next Tues!
Nothing you said, though, justifies cyclists riding through stop signs and red lights. We are supposed to obey the rules of the road…doesn’t matter if we slow down to 5 mph - it’s not a stop. The amount of damage that can be inflicted by a car vs bike doesn’t justify it to me either. You just gotta stop…doesn’t matter.
Wasn’t trying to justify anything but we live in the real world so have to deal with the real world.
Bikes will roll thru stops as well as cars. Cars will go over the speed limit. Bikes and cars will make turns without signaling.
I do not expect everyone to obey the rules. If I did I would be dead each day I rode my bike to work. I was just giving reasons we came up with for why some riders do what they do.
But I would suspect that more than half the riders will roll thru a stop sign on their next ride. If noone is in sight at a stop sign riders will roll thru even if at only 5 MPH.
Better to deal with living in the real world then try to get everyone else to live in your world.
I wasn’t bashing…just observing (and maybe playing a little tiny role as a devil’s advocate here). I’m by no means perfect (or even close to it) when it comes to obeying road rules on the bike (or on the car!).