I have been reading an interesting article in last weeks CW about Ed Coyle’s paper on Lance. From the article they think Lance’s breakthrough in the tour was down mainly to an improvement in economy - in 1992 Lance was able to produce 374W for every 5 litres of oxygen consumed a minute, this rose to 400w in 1999. combined with wieght lose of 5-7kg this = a 15-19% improvement in power output relative to body mass. According to the article there is no evidence to show that economy is directly trainable at all and the change in Lance is probably due to a change in his muscle make up - though this is controversial. They conclude that economy tends to be closely tied to the ammount of slowtwitch muscle fibres which is also related with the number of years spent training hard.
According to the article there is no evidence to show that economy is directly trainable at all and the change in Lance is probably due to a change in his muscle make up - though this is controversial. They conclude that economy tends to be closely tied to the ammount of slowtwitch muscle fibres which is also related with the number of years spent training hard.
I would expect Coyle to “conclude” this as concluding that improving economy through training is even possible goes against his earlier work and conclusions. Of course, the Cheese will come in and explain why we are all idiots to not understand the nuances of this work and why this conclusion really isn’t controversial at all.
I wonder if economy improves with years of riding and is a major influence in going fast is the reason so many oldies do well overhere in the UK - Most of the TT’s in Kent are won by Reg Smith who I think is in his late 50’s. Sean Yates still TT’s with the best of them in the UK and Malcome Elliot has loads of Road wins to name but a few of the older riders who just keep on winning.
I wonder if economy improves with years of riding and is a major influence in going fast is the reason so many oldies do well overhere in the UK - Most of the TT’s in Kent are won by Reg Smith who I think is in his late 50’s. Sean Yates still TT’s with the best of them in the UK and Malcome Elliot has loads of Road wins to name but a few of the older riders who just keep on winning.
I don’t think there is any evidence that cycling economy varies directly with age in the average athlete. If there is that would be evidence that either it is possible to train economy or that muscle fiber composition varies with age or both. I suspect older people winning suggest there is more to winning than simply economy. Race experience and knowing your abilities counts for a lot.
The thing is… do you know the definition of economy? 
I am afraid I am not the most well read in these matter. I would certainly not count myself as an expert, but I am interest and do ask lots of annoying question to all the sport scientists I know, as well as posting questions on the forum. S’A’C - The article used the deffinition of ecconomy as the ammount if power in watts an athlete can produce for a given ammount of oxygen which is closely related to efficiency which is described as how many joules of work can be performed for a given number of joules of energy expanded - is this a correct definition (is it a bit like asking a mechanic to describe torque?)
Frank I haven’t read any of Coyles other work and must admit I don’t know how well excepted his ideas are - I just hope my PC’s well keep helping me to improve I guess there are many reasons the older guys do well. I guess all the standard reason apply - good genes, good training, good racing brain and the disire to win - they were fast, they are fast and they will probably always be fast. Having come to the sport fairly late I just hope that I have years of improvement a head of me into my 30’s and 40’s wether it is due to improved economy, aerobic capacity or skill.
Boing wrote: "Frank I haven’t read any of Coyles other work and must admit I don’t know how well excepted his ideas are - I just hope my PC’s well keep helping me to improve I guess there are many reasons the older guys do well. I guess all the standard reason apply - good genes, good training, good racing brain and the disire to win - they were fast, they are fast and they will probably always be fast. Having come to the sport fairly late I just hope that I have years of improvement a head of me into my 30’s and 40’s wether it is due to improved economy, aerobic capacity or skill. "
All you have to do is do a search here and you will find many threads and heated discussions about this. As the Cheese has pointed out to us dolts here many times, Coyle is the most respected of all the gurus in this area and his work has demonstrated that economy means nothing to getting faster and that going fast is only about how hard you push on the pedals on the down stroke.
I look forward to hearing how this is explained by the cheese and others (beyond this has to be from changes in his muscles).
Frank
Reg Smith didn’t get more efficient, he just forgot he was an old fart. I have been reading results of UK TT ing since the 60’s, and can’t believe how fast some of their old farts go. I know about the carriageways with lots of cars sweeping by and pulling the times down a bit, but amen brother their are tons of 50, 60, 70 year olds that have been nailing times for 40 years now. Now with the internet we get to see some of the photos and lots of these guys are still on the old bikes they used to ride back when.
I see though most of them are using aerobars now. Here in the states or top 1-3 guys are pretty much equal to the top Brit. age groupers, but 4-50 th place is where UK has America in spades. G
Last year I had the pleasure of having him as my minute man on a TT- I didn’t make it to the turn around before I heard the rumble of his disk (I kept telling myself - I bet he cannot run - but then niether can I!).
I said that because many people,I’m not saying you, mix up efficiency and economy, when they’re not the same. But I’m no expert either, for these matters I call on the big cheese 
Did you give him a big hook and put him to the curb? You got to keep them old farts in their place. What an honor, getting your ass handed to you by a legend. I get mine handed to me by a bunch of nobodies more often than not.
But at 53, I am becoming the “old fart” on the round tube steel fixie handing asses to a few sleeping youngsters. Got to love the flat TT. Aloha G