Hey did anyone else notice the lack of a rear disc wheel on Discovery where all the other teams were using them? So the argument when to use a disc vs when not to use a disc? I assume because of the change in elevations during this TT they decided not to use one. I wonder if Jan improvement in the end vs Lance had anything to do with the fact that he used a disc. Obviously his power and size made up most of the difference but how much did the disc help him? Just thinking out loud.
hey you didn’t put bike “equipment spoiler”
waaaaaahhh waaaaaahhhhh sniffle…
Mentioned a couple of different places already this morning:
" I wonder if Jan improvement in the end vs Lance had anything to do with the fact that he used a disc. Obviously his power and size made up most of the difference but how much did the disc help him? Just thinking out loud. "
You could certainly be right about this plus the fact that Lance knew that he had already won so he probably let off the gas a bit and didn’t take quite the risk later in the course.
Lemming,
You are so right…Armstrong was really handicapped by his equipment. He should probably relinquish his stage win because he did so poorly. Frankly I’m almost embarrassed that he’s an American…
Well this is what we do on this forum we hash and rehash things like this. I like to do the same, I am not doing anything other than making a tongue in cheek comment.
That having been said, I do think it is funny that we as amateur wanna-bes will presume to critique his choices when he is the consummate technical cyclist. We find time to cycle, he has to find time to do anything else. He lives and breaths cycling. I believe Mr. Armstrong chose the bladed wheel because he decided it would give him the correct equipment for the course. Did he choose correctly? Excuse me if I roll my eyes…
fairly simple in fact…he won, so clearly that was the right choice.
Phil Liggert during the commentary said the disced wheel was less good in fast corners.
Rotten for high speed cornering.
fairly simple in fact…he won, so clearly that was the right choice.
It is simple, but not for that reason. Winning is relative to others’ performances. The right wheel choice is relative to the course and his performance. It would not have been the best choice if he could’ve gone 10 seconds faster on a disc, despite winning. It would not have been the wrong choice if he would have not won, but rode faster than he could’ve with a disc. The fact that it was the right choice is most supported by the fact that he made the choice at all. He, above everyone one else on the planet, is most qualified to make that determination.
when it’s a competition against others, it’s only relative to the other competitors…even in a TT.
when it’s a competition against others, it’s only relative to the other competitors…even in a TT.
The competition is obviously against others. The decision is not. The decision is this: which wheel will allow me to complete this course the fastest?
If John Q. Public were to race the tour, and had two choices, a mountain bike or a road bike, the correct decision is road bike. Just because he will lose by an hour doesn’t mean the decision was wrong.
From Chris Carmichael:
“Some people have asked why Lance and the Discovery Channel team chose to ride Hed 3 wheels instead of rear discs, and it was because of the climbs and the technical descents. It was important to have wheels that were aerodynamic for the flat and downhill portions of the course, that could accelerate quickly out of the tight corners, and that were reasonably light for the climbs. Discs are great for flat or gently rolling time trials, but for going up and down harder climbs and twisting descents, the Hed 3s were the better choice.”
Did anyone else pickup on Paul speaking about how DANGEROUS these TT bikes were… “treacherous machines” jeez you would think that these guys would be able to handle a TRI bike right? now i know that when you stick someone who for there whole life has ridden shallow and stick them on a tri bike they FREAK out… could it be the case that these guys in the tour NEVER pratice their positions and never ride their TT bikes??? Sure looks like Rass falls in that category… man looked like the old man position out there… couldn’t that boy go any lower…
btw- that was a blast to watch… really enjoyed it…
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I picked on a lot of things they said were wrong…Liggett in particular said that Ullrich beat Lance in the 2001 TT and a bunch of other stuff…
Not as bad as the journalists on ironmanlive who can never remember who won what when in what time…
is he saying the h3s are lighter then the zipp/bontrager disc?
I heard thru the grapevine that Steve Hed thought the tri-spokes were gonna be faster on “this” course. I think Lance listened!
Another interesting equipment observation…from Graham Watsons photo site…it looks like Vino is riding the Ossymetrtic chainrings as well …along with Julich…
“Did anyone else pickup on Paul speaking about how DANGEROUS these TT bikes were…”
What I noticed is that some of these guys seats were crammed so high that they could barely keep them upright. Basso couldn’t descend for shit - he could never get a knee out to provide some balance in the turns. Contrast that to Lance who was able to dive through the turns. Might look great on the flats, stellar in a wind tunnel, but not so good on a technical course.
Maybe I am the dumb one, but can anyone splain to me how a Hed3 would be faster than a disc or handle better on this course?
- Steve Hed has a crappy disc that has 15 year old engineering, and a pretty good three spoke wheel. Do you really think he would say. Man I think that Bonty disc wheel would be better than my wheel on this course. Just because everytime Lance suits up with a HED 3 ,15 million people see the wheel couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it.
- The Hed3 is heavier or maybe equal in weight to the Bonty disc and has more weight further from the hub than a disc so in theory the wheel would be slower to “jump” with speed.
- Both wheels are solid compared to something like a Hed deep dish or Zipp 808 with spokes, so I can’t believe they are more or less complient in cornering. My Hed3 is a very solid feeling wheel, but I don’t think they handle any different than a disc.
Does anybody have any logical information that wasn’t bought and paid for on this subject? Thanks
“Did anyone else pickup on Paul speaking about how DANGEROUS these TT bikes were…”
What I noticed is that some of these guys seats were crammed so high that they could barely keep them upright. Basso couldn’t descend for shit - he could never get a knee out to provide some balance in the turns. Contrast that to Lance who was able to dive through the turns. Might look great on the flats, stellar in a wind tunnel, but not so good on a technical course.
You can’t blame the bike because Basso is a bad descender on a road bike too. Sticking your knee doesn’t make you faster or safer in a corner or descent so if anything not being able to stick his knee out was a benefit.
Since he normally beats Jan by closer to a minute in the final TT, and this course was very favorable to Lance compared to Ullrich, I would say the wheel choice was crap but the way things worked out it didn’t matter.
Lance’s choices aren’t always the technically correct ones but nobody is going to change his mind once he decides. The “narrow” bike was faster than his normal one last year but he chose not to use it because he didn’t like that his power was less, though the aero savings still made it faster.