Lance allogations

Let’s look at the evidence-

former team employee gives statement that Lance did drugs

Lance seeks advice from a doctor known to dope riders

Lance has a positive test, granted he had a medical certificate and got out of it but it is still there…

Postal team employees were photographed disposing of medical waste in a very suspicious manner

Now we have susposed samples of his actually testing positive.

Notice that the margin of victory and number of stage wins has decreased over the years…

Lance has explanations for all these things. Explanations only go so far. I don’t think I would convict Lance with this evidence but it sure seems enough for a trial. None of us thought that Tyler would dope but he did. My question for all who seem to blindly support Lance is how much evidence do you need before you question the situation? I don’t want him to be gulity either but as a reasonable person I have my doubts. Do all of you buy into his marketing that much?

(allegations)
.

supposed
.

There is no direct evidence that LA took PEDS. You can’t count a positive test that was medically excused by the testers themselves, advice from a doctor, suspicous disposal pics, nor margin of win. Those statements mean nothing. Of all the testing he did, I think there was one positive with the topical cream, that was also excused by the UCI. By taking 100s of drug tests over the years, and not testing positive, it will be very hard to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Without proof, it is no more than talk…

You like these little Lance posts, don’t you? Just reviewing all of your past posts, a good % of them on threads you start about this.

So, lets play:

In the “Lance the Great???” thread you started in Jan. 2004, you repeatedly said “When has Lance EVER said that he has never taken performance enchaning drugs? He does NOT, he says he has never tested positive. There is a huge difference. I have never been caught running a stop light but I have. Very political… but not convinving to me. An uneqovical statement is necessary.”

Today he says: “I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance enhancing drugs.”

“Notice that the margin of victory and number of stage wins has decreased over the years…” What’s the point of this statement?

Per “Lance Armstrong’s War”, a lot of riders used the “doctor known to dope riders”, along with the other Italian doctor (forget his name, starts with a C).

Earlier in the month, in the “greatest endurance athlete of last 10 years” thread, you said, “Lance Armstrong, level of competiton, 3 weeks 2 rest days- hardest endurance event in the world.”

Hmmm…

This is getting old…

The guy had been tested hundreds of times and nothing found.

Let it go, he is retired anyway.

Michele Ferrari seems to me like the most brilliant man in endurance sports, he may have been caught administering doping, but to really nderstand his point of view read Lance Armstrong’s WAr…one of the most informative books I’ve read this year.

(Cecchini gets and honourable mention for smartest person in endurance sports)

Once Lance made his statment that he never took PEDs I gave him the benefit of the doubt and shut up. I respect that statement because I try to take people at their word. However, Tyler Hamilton said the same thing and is still saying it. I don’t believe him anymore. Does anyone? He made America look terrible. His olympic medal is a disgrace to all of us. The little prick did not even give it back.

If any other cyclist had the same history as Lance everyone would say “sure he dopes, they all do…” but many people will not question Lance’s performance. If anyone does they get very upset. I find that very interesting, do they need to believe in him that much? What if his sample was positive? Is he going to give back the millions he made? all the awards? how will our country look if it is proven that Lance took PED’s? You are correct if you think I questioned Lance’s comeback. how could you not?..

By the way all of you who say “he never failed a test” and that proves he is innocent are fools. David Millar (young British rider that won the Tour Prolouge and World TT) passed the SAME tests (in the same events as Armstrong) only to later admit that AT THE TIME HE WON HE WAS ON EPO. Guess those test don’t work that well…

Ahh yes…Lance Armstrong…I remember that guy.I loved watching him compete in the TDF back in the day. They just don’t make 'em like that these days. One time, he passed his minute man (The guy’s name escapes me after all this time) in the Prologue. What a rider. I wonder what ever became of him?

Isn’t he the Governor of Texas?

Guise sues pale “allogations” in core rectally canned bee take hen seer us lee.

–D

Notice that the margin of victory and number of stage wins has decreased over the years…

Year - Stage Wins - Margin

1999 - 4 - 7:37

2000 - 1 - 6:02

2001 - 4 - 6:44

2002 - 4 - 7:17

2003 - 2 - 1:01

2004 - 6 - 6:19

2005 - 2 - 4:40

I don’t see a pattern…and if there was one, how does this have anything to do with drugs?

If ST members were on the juries…OJ and MJ would be just as free as they are today.

bryin’

I’m sorry, but I find this style of unfounded accusation the means of those who cannot accept the facts.

Lance has been tested for drugs more than any other athlete in the world! Not only that, but he is tested both in season and out of the season. He has never failed a test!

As a result of your inability and the inability of some others to accept this reality, you and they have chosen to try and throw as much shit as possible at the wall in the hope that something will stick even though you and they have no substantiation for your or their accusations.

Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone could accuse you of being a fraud/cheat/criminal without anything but unsubstantiated accusations and innuendo.

You are neck deep in your own cesspool. Keep it up and you will drown in it and we will be spared your further cowardice and jealousy.

As you said, let’s look at the evidence-

“former team employee gives statement that Lance did drugs”

Comment: former team employee has no proof other than hearsay evidence and also has a significant grudge against LA. Could this be motivation for his disparaging statement? Not only that, but the statement he gives lack credibility for illogical inconsistencies.

“Lance seeks advice from a doctor known to dope riders”

Comment: sounds pretty much like guilt by association to me. By the way, do you happen to know what this doctor’s lifetime contribution to cycling has been? I think not based on your comment/accusation by association.

“Lance has a positive test, granted he had a medical certificate and got out of it but it is still there…”

Comment: Many professional cyclists have had numerous occurrences of this sort. LA has had only one in 13 years of professional cycling, 7 years of which were at the highest levels of the sport and which placed him under the greatest scrutiny. Was he simply given a pass because everyone loves him, loves Texans and loves Americans?

“Postal team employees were photographed disposing of medical waste in a very suspicious manner”

Many teams dispose of medical waste and personal trash in a similar manner to protect training methods and privacy of team members. Again, this is merely innuendo.

“Now we have susposed (supposed sp.) samples of his actually testing positive.”

Comment: This is new to me. Why haven’t I heard about this from other sources before I heard of this from you? This should be earth shattering news. Why was LA allowed to compete even though he was testing positive? Are you suggesting WADA is involved in a conspiracy to cover-up drug use? Is this WADA “conspiracy” theory more “evidence” on your part that LA used illegal PEDs?

“Notice that the margin of victory and number of stage wins has decreased over the years…”

Comment: As someone else said, what does this have to do with anything? What is your point? Simply more innuendo?

“Lance has explanations for all these things. Explanations only go so far. I don’t think I would convict Lance with this evidence but it sure seems enough for a trial.”

Comment: If a prosecutor does not have enough evidence to obtain a conviction, he is wasting taxpayer’s money on a trial. In your own belief and logic paradigm, a not guilty verdict would not prove LA wasn’t cheating or using illegal PEDs just like hundreds of negative drug controls over 13 years of professional competition has not convinced you or your friends that LA was not cheating.

Lastly, the French and Italian governments have both investigated the U.S Postal team and LA with the purpose of exposing cheating and illegal competition and obtaining sufficient evidence to bring charges and obtain a conviction in a court of law. Both governments abandoned their investigations. Why did they do this with so much evidence as you suggest exists? Are they part of the “conspiracy” too?

As one who blindly supports LA, as you suggest I do, I would like to see something more substantial than innuendo, hearsay, and limited circumstantial evidence. I’m sure if you were accused of a crime or your character was besmirched you too, would want something more substantial as evidence as well. Wouldn’t it be nice if both you and LA were held to the same standard for before such accusations were made and charges were filed in court.

Maybe that is why charges haven’t been filed in court against LA. Because there wasn’t sufficient evidence to warrant such charges.

Charges have not been filed yet against you for child abuse and sex crimes. By the same argument you have made against LA, does that mean you are not guilty of such crimes? No it simply means you have so far successfully avoided prosecution for your crimes. Simply stated, you believe an individual is guilty until proven innocent. I think you should stand up to the same legal test.

Why don’t you go looking for some honor and dignity and see if you can get some of it to rub off on you?

Good luck.

If ST members were on the juries…OJ and MJ would be just as free as they are today.

I agree and disagree. I agree that we are lenient on Lance, but I disagree that we are lenient on everyone. It seems that we exude bias in our leniency. When it effects us personally we lash out, i.e. Steve Larson. If Lance was in our sport racing as an age grouper I’m sure there would be more accusing and griping.

And about OJ and MJ. I was at Grand Central Station (NYC) during rush hour when MJ’s verdict was read. There was a group of commuters (100+) gathered and locked into a television showing the verdict. When they read that MJ was innocent all of the white business peeps where totally still and silent, while there was a group of black people off to the side cheering and celebrating his innocents. No science, but anecdotal evidence that we root for people that are like us. It was a telling moment.

I think that subject may be for another lifetime…seems that race and class in the US are more important that guilty or not…such a shame.

If ST members were on the juries…OJ and MJ would be just as free as they are today.
I guess a conviction with no evidence and no trial is more fair…my bad.

Are you French?

Using your same logic, I suggest the following:

Bryin is an idiot.

Evidence: You can’t spell allegation, supposed or guilty. You beat the same horse again and again.

Bryin is a liar.

Evidence: You presume to assert that Lance has a positive test. Where are the reports on this or is there another cover-up that only you have knowledge about.

If you have some credible evidence, bring it up and I would be the first to condemn a drug user. Dude, get a new drum to beat or get some hard evidence to back up your assertions. Until then, get back on your trike and pedal your 15 mph and get your speed up to a level that is respectable.

Mike

Right. Some tabloid newspaper suddenely has access to urine samples. Yet, independent labs state no EPO was found and none of the samples can be identified with a specific rider.

You know what?

Fuck the French.