I’m shopping for a new bike and interested in feedback on these two bikes. Isaac claims that they use high-modulus TORAYCA T1000G carbon in the Joule frame…is that unique or does everybody use the same carbon? I’ve ridden the Joule and was impressed with the stiffness and ride quality, but want to consider the Kaliber as well…afraid I can’t wait for the Cervelo P3 carbon…
I doubt its unique, but not everyone uses the same raw material. Also, thats about the least significant aspect of picking out a bicycle for a customer to worry about. Concentrate of fit, handling, style, color, weight, comfort etc - dont worry about the supplier of the raw materials.
Styrrell
I’ve got an Isaac Joule in front of me right now. I’ve only seen the Kaliber from a distance and on the interweb.
Does anyone know what if any differences there are between the models? I know that the Joule has Isaac’s trademark mondo-headtube. Other than finish they appear very similar
GB
I have a Joule and should have it built-up by April. I have a large frame and its still very light. I think they are very similar but all things being equal, I’d rather have the Kuota. I purchased my Joule on e-bay for $1250 so that’s why I went with the Isaac. Both do not have internal cable routing but the Lucero does (but the Lucero is heavier). The Joule has a matte finish and the Kouta has a gloss finish. The only thing I do not like about the Joule is the width of the headtube, it’s very fat.
Dave in VA
Rumor has it that these two frames are nearly identical. It has been stated that they are made in the same factory as each other, so I wouldn’t put much stock in the “high-modulus TORAYCA T1000G carbon” junk. Sounds like marketing hype to me. At any rate, these frames are very similar. The Isaac was the original. All other things being equal, go with the original.
RP
Well, even if two frames are made by the same factory, it doesn’t mean they use the same carbon fibre. A factory will have various fibres it works with, sometimes even within the same frame. Most bike companies just specify frame shape and weight, and the manufacturer then goes to work figuring out what grade of carbon is needed to achieve that target. And if a company builds both a 1600g and a 1000g frame of the same style, you can be sure they don’t use the same grade. If you spend a lot of time in the design of the lay-up (which unfortunately almost nobody does), you combine different grades depending on what you need. You would use for example high-modulus and high-strength unidirectional and ten some woven, so at least three different materials. In the P3 Carbon we have lay-ups with 3-5 different materials, depending on the version.
My preference in this instance would be:
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Man-up and wait for the P3C. The instant it comes out you’ll regret having bought anything else.
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The Joulle.
I almost bought the Isaac last summer from Rich Ducar’s shop here in IL. As Tom and others have preached…fit fit fit. The frame was a Large, pretty and sleek as all get out but…at almost 6’2" and closing in on age 50, that front headtube was awful short for this guy. Rich, after looking at my current ride and my “frame” told me, much to his credit, that it wasn’t the right bike for me. He lost a price-y sale, but once again earned my respect.
It was a great looking bike though and if it had fit…vvrrroommm. I would have been off to the races.
Torayca is probably a brand name. I use Hexcel in many specs. Unless you know the specs of the fibre used, numbers and names are useless. And just like different tubing names, there is probably a corresponding spec in every different cloth name from different manufacturers.
Do they use the same fibres? Maybe, maybe not. The fibres they say they use could be what they use on the outer layer, the middle layers, or the bottom layers. But for the average consumer, having the name brand of the fibres used is relatively meaningless unless the consumer is educated, and even then, you could have the local expert yacking about “Torayca T1000G is the best stuff for a carbon fibre bike ever made” only based on an advert (which is how the local expert usually gets their information).
Carbon bikes are like comparing apples to bananas- you have no idea what is REALLY going on under the weave. How many grades of fibres did they use to address the issues of strength, stiffness, hole prevention, reinforcement, and the like? Did they use other materials other than carbon in the layup?
One could take carbon tape, impregnate it with resin, and wrap many, many layers around a foam core in just four planes, compact it, and have a decent part, albeit heavy. Or, one could go into a LOT of engineering hoo-ha (which I am not poo-pooing), use the right materials for different layers, engineer differing qualities into different zones by altering layup, and have a high-performance piece of machinery.
Does the bike have the shape you want? Do the stock sizes fit you? Do you really want another bike while getting something to satisfy you now? Do you have unrealistic expectations of the bike you are going to buy?
In the end, you have to look for experience, know-how, and have blind faith in your carbon fabricator when looking to buy a bike made of composites.
Why the Joule over the Kuota?