To the Legacy athlete at the Legacy reception who cornered Andrew Messick so you could explain to him what is wrong with the Legacy program and how he should fix it: Boo. You embarrassed yourself, not that I think you are in touch with that emotion. If you are ever given the chance of a lifetime again, maybe just say thank you. I bet you complained about your Christmas presents when you were a kid.
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Good on ya Gary. But do not let a dickhead damper the aloha. BTW I ate enough cake at the slowtwitch gathering to carry you, Carla and Jodi through the day on Saturday. Billy Rudell, Mark Ray of C’Dale and Herbert were quite the hosts.
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Just curious…what was his argument?
jaretj
Just curious…what was his argument?
jaretj
he said the prize monies was shit
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Some people can put a negative spin on anything.
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Personally I think the entries to the regular lottery should be something like $1000 and then you pay your Kona entry and you have to do at least 3 half IM’s in 2 years before you show up in Kona. I like the legacy program, as it gives the entry to Kona to life long athletes. You don’t get to 12 finishes just through pure dumb luck. The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry…heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first…pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don’t see why the lottery guys get a free pass. I really like the Legacy Program. Personally I qualified for Kona on my 12th IM and Kona was my 13th, but if the program existed back then, I would have gladly done 2 IM’s in the last two of those years to pop myself over the threshold. As it stood, it took me 15 years to get to number 12 and I failed to qualify over that time frame until number 12.
Personally I thank Messick for the program even though I never got to take advantage. There are many guys who are not within 1-4 hours of KQ for whom this is a lifestyle and the Legacy program is a path to Kailua Pier. Well done WTC…keep it up…and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater “Magic number” ring to it than 12.
Dev
27x IM finisher 
(you can say it is lifestyle for me).
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Personally I think the entries to the regular lottery should be something like $1000 and then you pay your Kona entry and you have to do at least 3 half IM’s in 2 years before you show up in Kona. I like the legacy program, as it gives the entry to Kona to life long athletes. You don’t get to 12 finishes just through pure dumb luck. The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry…heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first…pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don’t see why the lottery guys get a free pass. I really like the Legacy Program. Personally I qualified for Kona on my 12th IM and Kona was my 13th, but if the program existed back then, I would have gladly done 2 IM’s in the last two of those years to pop myself over the threshold. As it stood, it took me 15 years to get to number 12 and I failed to qualify over that time frame until number 12.
Personally I thank Messick for the program even though I never got to take advantage. There are many guys who are not within 1-4 hours of KQ for whom this is a lifestyle and the Legacy program is a path to Kailua Pier. Well done WTC…keep it up…and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater “Magic number” ring to it than 12.
Dev
27x IM finisher (you can say it is lifestyle for me).
I don’t know about dropping more coin, but definitely more sweat. Prove that you can finish. I like the idea of 10 for Legacy, though.
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Personally I think the entries to the regular lottery should be something like $1000 and then you pay your Kona entry and you have to do at least 3 half IM’s in 2 years before you show up in Kona. I like the legacy program, as it gives the entry to Kona to life long athletes. You don’t get to 12 finishes just through pure dumb luck. The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry…heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first…pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don’t see why the lottery guys get a free pass. I really like the Legacy Program. Personally I qualified for Kona on my 12th IM and Kona was my 13th, but if the program existed back then, I would have gladly done 2 IM’s in the last two of those years to pop myself over the threshold. As it stood, it took me 15 years to get to number 12 and I failed to qualify over that time frame until number 12.
Personally I thank Messick for the program even though I never got to take advantage. There are many guys who are not within 1-4 hours of KQ for whom this is a lifestyle and the Legacy program is a path to Kailua Pier. Well done WTC…keep it up…and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater “Magic number” ring to it than 12.
Dev
27x IM finisher (you can say it is lifestyle for me).
I will never qualify for Kona. I also don’t think I have it in me to do 12 (or even 10) IM’s. I do however think I could finish Kona (in a solid 16:59:59). It gives people like me a chance at the big race that I otherwise would never have and therefore gives me hope and more importantly keeps me in the sport (and if I do do 10 while waiting for the lottery shot, so be it). To even do 1 IM you have to sweat and put money into it if you want to finish. I don’t think anyone who finishes Kona got a free pass unless it is literally their first triathlon, and even then if they finish why begrudge them?
The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry…heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first…pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don’t see why the lottery guys get a free pass.
According to the Ironman site, those who gain entry via the lottery have to validate as well.
Q. If I am selected through the general IRONMAN Lottery, what do I do and how do I validate my entry?
Athletes who are selected through the IRONMAN Lottery must complete a branded IRONMAN or IRONMAN 70.3 event within one year of the 2015 IRONMAN World Championship to validate their Lottery slot. Lottery winners must complete a validating race by August 31, 2015, with all validating information submitted to Lottery@ironman.com by August 31, 2015. Failure to comply will result in the forfeiture of the Lottery slot.
Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/americas/ironman/world-championship/athletes/ironman-lottery-legacy-and-passport-programs.aspx#ixzz3FemmHeIB
Just curious…what was his argument?
jaretj
He wanted to be able to roll his entry from another Ironman to Kona once he got his Legacy slot. He went on and on about it and Messick was gracious and just listened. I was behind them thinking “Dude, you’re in Kona, STFU and be thankful.”
/
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
john
I agree. Like most brilliant business decisions it’s a win for the company and the customer.
/
OK, I understand.
Thanks
jaretj
Agreed, it is a great program. At IMWI, a buddy of mine was in line next to a guy who had done all the North American IM races this year and was planning on doing them all. He wanted to get to his 12 races by next year so he could get in on the legacy program.
My legs hurt just thinking about that…
My bank account hurts.
Well done WTC…keep it up…and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater “Magic number” ring to it than 12.
I agree that this was brilliant long-term marketing on WTC’s part. I think it will be interesting to see over time, as more people approach their 10th-12th IM, if the magic number starts to actually go up - the limited number of slots available for the legacy program combined with an increased demand might mean that once you hit 12, you’re still not guaranteed to get in, and folks may need to do 14-15 to “guarantee” their legacy spot.
Additionally, making a bit of an assumption here, once you’ve qualified for a legacy slot, the number isn’t reset, is it? If those legacy qualifiers want to, once they’ve gone once, they’re just adding to their total and increasing the number. If 50 people qualified with 12 IM events and do Kona this year, they now have 13, which would improve their chances for next year. If 20 of those love the idea of an annual trip to Hawaii and decide they want to do it again, that’s essentially 20 fewer slots available for those people working towards number 12.
Using you as an example, Dev, with your 27 IMs, if you didn’t qualify for Kona, it’s hard to believe you couldn’t just grab a legacy slot and now go back every year. Very few people can catch you, and you could essentially hold a Kona slot for the rest of your life. If more people do that, the number 12 won’t mean anything anymore, unless WTC increases the number of legacy slots, which holds further implications.
On another note, as a Toughman ambassador and a general fan of the underdog, non-“brand name” triathlon events, I’m not crazy about how the Legacy program takes away from those who want to do long course events with other brands. To me, that helps the WTC, but doesn’t necessarily help the sport as a whole. But, that’s exactly why it’s brilliant marketing. I’m kind of surprised they haven’t implemented it for the 70.3 series.
ETA: When using you as an example, Dev, I didn’t mean to make it sound like you’re some sort of bad guy - you’ve obviously earned your place, and have earned the ability to utilize the Legacy program. I was just trying to point out a loophole in the system. Sorry if that didn’t come off well.
the legacy program was brilliant in terms of wtc business.
when purchased. they promised to keep the lottery so regular joes can attend the race. wtc was probably worried that one day the regular joes would be sick of signing up for the lottery for like 80 bucks and not getting in. think about how crazy that is. you pay 80 bucks and if you win you get to pay 700+ to register. so they made the legacy. do 12 races and boom you’re in. it gets people to invest another 7k into something. guys who are at 7 might say, oh, what’s 5 more.
john
Personally I think the entries to the regular lottery should be something like $1000 and then you pay your Kona entry and you have to do at least 3 half IM’s in 2 years before you show up in Kona. I like the legacy program, as it gives the entry to Kona to life long athletes. You don’t get to 12 finishes just through pure dumb luck. The pure dumb luck guys should have to do more to validate their entry…heck, Pete Jacobs and Crowie have to validate and the lottery guys just walk in. There is something wrong with that. Sure it can be for everyman, but everyman should have to drop a bit of sweat and coin first…pretty well everyone else who qualifies has to go through a lot of sweat and drop significant $$$ (including pros) to get there. I don’t see why the lottery guys get a free pass. I really like the Legacy Program. Personally I qualified for Kona on my 12th IM and Kona was my 13th, but if the program existed back then, I would have gladly done 2 IM’s in the last two of those years to pop myself over the threshold. As it stood, it took me 15 years to get to number 12 and I failed to qualify over that time frame until number 12.
Personally I thank Messick for the program even though I never got to take advantage. There are many guys who are not within 1-4 hours of KQ for whom this is a lifestyle and the Legacy program is a path to Kailua Pier. Well done WTC…keep it up…and I would encourage WTC to drop it to 10, not twelve. 10 has a greater “Magic number” ring to it than 12.
Dev
27x IM finisher (you can say it is lifestyle for me).
I don’t know about dropping more coin, but definitely more sweat. Prove that you can finish. I like the idea of 10 for Legacy, though.
I would like the Lottery guys to drop as much coin as a normal qualifier (it not more…certainly they don’t deserve to drop less). A normal qualifier has to pay for his qualifier IM and the Kona entry fee. Let’s not forget that the normal qualifier has to pay for hotels and travel to the first race…I don’t see any good reason why WTC should not change the lottery guys as much or more than the general outlay of a normal qualifier. More money for WTC for sure…heck they could roll it back into the pro prize purse :-). I just solved TheRealStarky’s 7th place IMLP prize money beef
legacy doesn’t work that way:
Q. What are the eligibility requirements for the 2015 IRONMAN Legacy Program?
To enroll athletes must meet all four of the following requirements*:
Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/lottery-and-legacy.aspx#ixzz3Ff2YbDwl
(but thanks for the question because I was wondering myself…)
the legacy programis only open to Kona first timers and can only be used once. if you have raced Kona by any means you are no longer eligible fot a legacy slot.
/
OK, thank you for clarifying that, Kathy!
That does negate most of my argument, so I stand corrected. I could still see the “magic number” going up as more people hit 12 and create increased demand for those slots.