Other riders have noticed that my left knee pops outward while I’m riding my bike. It happens when my left foot is between the positions of 2 o’clock and 11 o’clock. It hasn’t ever bothered me, so I haven’t worried about it.
Yesterday, though, at the end of a four hour ride, my left started giving me problems, which have only become worse after sitting around. Nothing severe just, a moderate amount of pain that starts in the very middle of my knee cap and goes down about 2 inches; it doesn’t creep over to either side of my knee. This is the first time I’ve felt the pain, and I’m concerned about running today.
Any suggestions on what, if anything, can be done to correct the knee popping outward issue?
Any guesses on what I’ve done to my knee? I presume its related to popping outward issue.
(oh yeah, I don’t think its related, but I went to a more aggressive angle before my ride - - more on that to come in another post; can’t see this as related because my knee has been popping outward long before my position change. Thought I’d throw it out there, though.)
What kind of pedals do you have? You may have too much or too little float. Also, is your saddle height correct? You might be responding to a too low saddle. You might also want to investigate whether shims for you shoes might help with alignment. I haven’t done this, but others here could advise you.
I wouldn’t be so sure that the two problems are related. Again, too low a saddle can cause knee problems, as can too low a cadence.
If I have a saddle height issue, would you expect the knee issue to be asymetrical?
I’m on Softride Rocket and have the beam as high as it will go; the size of the bike is suppose to fit, so I’m not if this is the problem.
I’m going to look into the shim suggestion. I’m hoping I can find a good fitter that has experience w/ shims. I’ve been going to a guy that is FIST certified. Not sure if this course covers shims.
I think the Look pedals have zero float. That can be very tough on the knees. I have Speedplay pedals and have had knee problems on the bike only when my saddle was too low or when I was overgeared for the hills.
No, saddle height wouldn’t normally cause an asymetry, but it might if you were sitting to one side somehow to compensate.
If I had to do the pedals all over again, I would probably go with Speedplay Zeros. The float is adjustable. My left knee will pop out sometimes, especially when I am tired. I have to concentrate on rotating my left heel outward slightly. That corrects it. With the zeros, that wouldn’t be an issue.
Here are some general suggestions that have worked for me and riders I have coached:
RICE your knee. Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation. Pay attention to it right away so that it does not get serious. Back off some now to prevent big problems later. When I am in training I pay attention to, and treat, every little thing that goes wrong.
Have an expert review your riding position, bike fit, and shoe/pedal fit. (Sometimes pain in the front of the knee comes when your saddle is too low but there are lots of other things that might be wrong.)
Work on flexibility of your hips, glutes, hams, and IT band. Sometimes tension in these areas causes pedaling inneficiencies.
Switch to pedals that allow both float and rotational. If you use the red Look ARC cleats you will have some rotational freedom, but I prefer Time pedals myself which allow your foot to shift side to side slightly, as well as rotate. Time pedals cured my knee problems.
Improve your pedaling technique. Try and spin in smooth circles and keep that cadence above 85.
Do you work on flexibility? I agree with the above suggestions. It almost sounds like a flexibilty issue. Sometimes tight glute muscles(especially piriformis) can cause your leg/knee to pop out.
jaretj: the lewedge looks interesting. I’m extremely flat footed, and have thought my knee kicking out could be helped out with the wedge.
Strangely, skimming the sight you listed, it looks like the product is marketed toward riders that with knees that kick inward. I’m guessing I could just flip the wedge to the other side and it might correct my outward kick problem.
I’m going to try some orthodics this week and see if I notice improvement.
Viking1: you bring up a good point. I’ve had really tight hips recently related to ITBS. You have given me yet another reason to concentrate on stretching my hips.
If you know of some good stretches for hips and/or ITBS, let me know. (links would be great).
Look pedals do have float. The color of the cleats is one method Look has of determining float. The black cleats have “no float” which actually means very little float, 3 degrees or less. The red cleats permit much more float, 6 degrees at least, maybe as much as 9-12 degrees of float.
Look also manufactures a pedal with adjustable float., the A 5.1, which is the new version of their PP-296 pedal that had adjustable float. The adjustment range was 0-3-6-9 degrees, or 0-3-6-9-12 degrees. These two model pedals can be easily identified by the little twist knob on the rear of the pedal which is rotated to select the amount of float…
Seat height issues will often manifest assymetrically. Relatively few people have equal-length legs, to say nothing of varying flexibility and musculature. Variance in any of these can dictate an assymetry in pedaling mechanics. Be sure your bike fitter is checking knee angle on both legs; surprisingly few fitters do this, and it is a good first indicator for all of the above assymetries.
Float in pedals is not a cure-all for knee problems. It is much like fitting running shoes: some people need motion control, some people need cushion, and some people are neutral. I have seen/fit several riders who have had knee problems directly related to pedals with too much float. In these cases, floating pedal systems exacerbated knee/pedal alignment issues and lead to injury.
I am not saying that this applies to you, but “float” has become a catch-all answer to knee problems in cycling, and it can be very counterproductive/contra-indicated for some riders.
Yes, they can be used for the knees in or out. Most people have the foot slanted one way, I think that only 9% of the population has the inside of the foot lower than the outside. You may be in the minority. I had mine done by a very good bike shop. The guy worked with me for about an hour and I wound up with 2 shimms in my left and one in my right. I am very flat footed also but my feet were twisted the normal way.
Will orthotics work in your cycling shoes? If they do will you change them from your cycling shoes to your running shoes or maybe you have two pairs.
This is just a possible solution, a simple one, maybe a trustworthy bike shop can help you out better. There can be so many other things to consider. Good luck in finding your solution.
Personally, I think that doing a four-hour ride after making a significant position change would be the first problem to investigate. Moving the saddle forward causes more stress on the knees as it uses the thigh muscles more. Combine this with a long ride and you’re setting yourself up for problems.