I went to the Expert this winter to get fitted and to order a new tri bike at the same time. The new bike was finally ready last weekend. To say that I’m unhappy with the position is an understatement. I feel best riding forward with a relatively open hip angle, yet he has me sitting way far back; now I’m fidgeting all the time, mostly with my anus on the tip of the saddle and my hands hanging up over the bar end shifters. The Expert doesn’t want me moving things around, saying that I’ll have my knee too far past the pedal spindle and that I’ll lose too much power.
I’d really like to hear from the Slowtwitch community regarding this issue. What to do? BTW, the new bike is a Softride Rocket TT7, DA10, HED carbon bar.
Well, first off, the KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) rule of thumb is only applicable in some circumstances. For some people, it never works. So, like most bike fit “rules” it is subjective.
In general, very, very few triathlon bike positions result in the tibial tuberosity (lower knee extremeity) being over the pedal spindle. It is generally well in front of it.
Also, if your position is not working and feels truly terrible after you have given it time for acclimation you need a “re-fit”. If you can honestly say to yourself that you have given this position a reasonable period of time (600 miles) and it is still not working for you then you have a 100% valid concern. The position should be reevaluated and changes should be considered.
If you’re riding a steep seat-angled bike, the KOPS doesn’t work very well. You’ve rotated your position around the bottom bracket and maintained the same body angles. To still have your knee over pedal spindle in a steep setup is a geometrical complication, if at all possible. I’ve read in some places your knee will pass 1-2 cm in front of the pedal spindle at 3 o’clock, and this greatly depends on rider style, body type, seat angle and so forth.
It sounds like your fitter was sticking with a traditional road geometry setup on a steep angled bike, which will create problems.
I’d jam that seat forward, while maintaining your seat height, and make adjustments from there. the slowtwitch website has plenty of tri-fit articles to help you fine tune it.
When I was on my tri bike last year, I was so far forward I could almost hit the aerobar extensions (leftover part extruding backwards) with my knees. When I would stand I would hit the extensions or the pads sometimes. This is obviously way past KOPS. I also had the best bike splits of my career. I like to ride forward with a steep seat angle. So that’s what I did.
Since the saddle height is actually a radius from the bottom bracket, wouldn’t keeping the “seat height” the same necessitate raising the saddle height as well, as the saddle was moved forward through the arc located at the bottom bracket?
It’s very simple. The “Expert Fitter” mentions KOPS, be it for road or tri fit, and you pick up your stuff and leave. The only exception is if the fitter mentions KOPS in the context of “the biggest nonsense ever to hit the face of the earth with regards to fitting is KOPS”.
Yes, when you push your saddle forward, you’ll also need to raise it a touch to preserve the seat height. It’s best to take an exact measurement of saddle height, from either the middle of the saddle or a set distance from the saddle nose (say 17cm or so). Then raise the forward saddle until the height is the same as it was previously.