Kids, college, athletics, academics,etc.-info needed

The Coffee Shop
1

I have an almost 16 year old sophomore boy. He is an exceptional student (4.0 and currently ranked number 1 according to his HS academic counselor). He is a decent swimmer (he’s not shattering records but he is doing a 1:05 100 breast and a 5:10 500 free) and will also run track this spring. One thing he excels at is taking standardized tests.

Like many people who have watched their retirement accounts wither, we have watched the accounts that we had set aside for college for our kids deplete to almost nothing. So we have been looking at other alternatives.

The other night my son and I went to a talk by a company that seems to be some sort of a HS student athlete recruiting company and they had some interesting things to say. They operate on the idea that if you are considering playing sports in college (and of course you are good enough) and you have decent grades you may as well try to receive some athletic scholarship money. Apparently this company ( and I’m sure there are others like it) streamline the process and act as an intermediary between the HS athlete and colleges. They say that DII and DIII schools are often willing to pay student athletes to come and go to school on scholarship.

This is very far out of my experience and I am wondering if anyone here knows something more about it. I know this company charges for their services. I also know that we can probably do everything that they will do on our own, although maybe without the same efficiency. Currently, I have not spent any money with them, but I am willing to spend the time and engage them and get as much info as I can for free.

Also, on a related note. When do colleges start sending out brochures? I seem to recall that I started to receive them towards the middle-end of Junior year. My son already has a HUGE pile of them. Is this because of his academic accomplishment? Or is this because, like everything else anymore, they have just accelerated the process?

Bernie

2

couple of things:

  1. Beware. I know there are a lot of companies out there that will make promises about scholarships until they’ve cashed your check.

  2. As you said, most of this is work you can do. I played D1 lacrosse and my father and I made all the contacts ourselves. Plus, if he is good enough to get a scholarship, coaches will be looking for him. Of course that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be sending letters and videos.

  3. If a company is saying that D3 schools are giving money, turn the other way and run. They do not provide athletic scholarships. They can help your kid get in (which is huge) and they may even be able to give him advice on where to look for other types of scholarships, but there is no such thing as a D3 athletic scholarship.

3
  1. Stay away from companies offering to find you scholarships.
  2. Work through your coach and college counselor.
  3. Identify colleges that your son is interested in attending.
  4. If he took the PSAT, he should be getting college information.
  5. Your son can likely get a tremendous amount of scholarship money (athletic and academic) if does not care where he goes to school.
  6. I went through this with my daughter and my son is now a junior in high school and we are going through it with him too.
    p.m. me if you want to talk. Paul
4

We’re kinda going thru the college thing right now.

Couple things. First depends on the college. My daughter looked at one college and they stated they would match any “Scholarships” she got. Very unusual but also points out the differences in various schools.

Second there seems to be TONS of odd ball money out there. Write essays, art, sports etc etc etc. Might only be 250-500$ bucks at stake and 10 thousand people going for it, but hell for writing an essay you can’t beat cash or any number of other things.

Third there are the federal programs. Mostly based on how much you make but none the less an option. We’re just diving into the whole FAFSA thing.

Fourth, look at the price of the school. I was quite surprised at exactly how cheap you could get a decent 4 year education. Maybe you’re not going to a “Well known” big name college or your “First choice” but if it’s 20K a year cheaper and money is tight it might be worth it.

Fifth, community college. 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a 4 year college. Same degree, almost half the price. Of course you have to watch out to make sure the degree transfers and all that stuff.

~Matt

5

Great advice, Brick!

I would focus on academic scholarships, even if a student has a shot at going D1 or D2. I teach at a larger high school and there are tons of opportunities out there: Hundreds of local, small individual scholarships ($200 to many $ thousand) totalling a $ million for just 250 graduating students. Only 50 to 100 students take advantage of any of them. The application process is not as tedious once you come up with a generic essay and letters of rec. and tweak them to fit each scholarship. The proof is usually in the grades & resume. I would become good friends with the counselors and the person who runs the career center at the high school. That is where you will received the best advice and info.

Sure, there is always the potential to get help if you participate in sports, even at the D3 & NAIA level (They just don’t call them “athletic” scholarships).

Like Matt said, the first 2 years of college can be pretty much free to any student willing to go to a JC (or even a state school). There are challenging programs out there outside of elite schools and universities. I have a friend who aced her English and teaching BA who went back to the JC and just got into nursing school. The science pre-reqs at the CC were harder than any high school AP science class.

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U.S. Naval Academy. Cost, FREE.

7

Have you considered looking at schools in Canada? the best schools here are cheaper than the state schools in the US. At McGill, the undergrad students from the US pay around $14k a year (Canadian dollars).

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X2 on Gator and Brick’s comments - especially about NOT paying someone to do what you can easily do yourself. I’d add a few more thoughts:

  1. The ‘top’ DIII schools have relatively large endowments and can offer significant aid packages to exceptional students. Examples: NESCAC schools in the northeast; Grinnell, Carleton, Oberlin in the Midwest; Swarthmore, Haverford, Davidson in the mid-Atlantic, etc…

  2. Go online, go to a bookstore, visit the library and grab a copy of a Princeton Review Guide, US News & World Report ranking, or similar where they list the top X national div III schools or something similar.

  3. Don’t rule out any school based solely on the annual ‘sticker’ price. If you qualify your son could receive significant financial aid that could put tuition on par with, or even less than your local state schools and other, seeming bargain schools. The ‘elite’ Div III schools don’t have Harvard or Duke-sized endowments, but they’ve got hundreds of millions and w/ student populations typically south of 2,000 they’re awarding tens of millions of dollars a year of straight fin aid.

  4. Start to put together a highlight package of your son’s results. Include his grades, AP courses, etc. Div III athletics is all about the student-athlete. He’s a soph so it’s early by Div III standards. Coaches may not contact him legally until his junior year (I think it’s Aug/Sept, but check the ncaa website), but depending upon where you’re located, how well your son has done in big meets, a coach or two may already be aware of his performances. Or not. Oftentimes a Div III recruit is a self-made one.

Best of luck

9

Plenty of D3 schools give out what amounts to athletic scholarships under the guise of academic or supplemental need-based aid. But the school needs to feel like the student-athlete is going to significantly contribute. Are they going to make NCAA cuts? Or at the least final at league meet?

Looking at MIAA (D3 Michigan conference) results from last year, it took a 4:47 to make the A final at league meet and 4:54 to make the consolation final in the 500 free and a 59/A final 1:03 B final for the 100 breast.

10

The daughter of a co-worker got a full ride at New Mexico Highland University to play soccer. She wasn’t an exceptional player and the team didn’t do all that well but she got room, board, tuition, and books. I’m pretty sure she found the scholarship through the community college that she was attending. I know she didn’t pay a company to get it for her.

Another thing to consider is that many states offer free tution to students that plan to become teachers. There’s a stipulation that you have to teach for a few years after graduating. Most sholarships carry some sort of obligation, though. Your son should make sure that if he accepts a scholarship that he’ll follow through with it. My niece blew her first semester of a basketball scholarship and had to pay back a tidy sum on money.

11

As a former newspaper sports reporter, and on behalf of my colleagues I left behind, please, for the love of whoever or whatever you worship, DO NOT call the local fishwrap and tell them they need to write about your kid so he’ll have a chance at a scholarship. Newspaper reporters have NO pull with even local college coaches about athletes capable of competing on the college level. Seriously. In 12-and-a-half years I never had a college coach ask me if I knew of any good athletes for his or her program in any sport. Thank you for your time.

Fla Jill rocks for showing actual times from actual meets, times your son should be meeting to compete in Division III. For the most part, though, if he’s getting all As and has good scores on his boards – and if he hustles some other scholarships – you should have no problem getting college paid for.

One other thought I had, your son chose his sports wisely. While talent in a team sport is subjective – from how he looks relative to his teammates or level of competition to his individual skills – the clock don’t lie. He either has college ability in running and swimming or he doesn’t. From the sounds of things, though, he’ll smoke the academic world.

12

& then to find a a job in the US will be a gigantic pain!
Fred.

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My kids swim and while they, unfortunately, are not in the athletic scholarship hunt, I am surrounded by kids and parents who are in the miiddle of the college recruiting game, some at the top programs in the country.

I’ve heard of companies like the one you mention. The word on the street is that they are a waste of money unless you are middle of the pack both academically and athletically and the only factor you are going to apply to chosing a school is how much althetic money they are going to give you. They will dig up the school you never heard of 3 states away that will be willing to offer you kid $2000 a year but it is nothing you can’t do yourself. I’ve seen kids/parents dig up athletic scholarship money at places halfway across the country just my doing little research on the internet and sending an email to a coach. An athletic scholarship is hard to get but its purely a process of matching a school’s needs with what you can bring to the table. Its very easy to shop your self in sports like track or swimming where performance is objective and needs are clear. (Much harder to dig up who is willing to pay for a tight end with your kids skills). Look at team websites and match up your times with somepalce you can go into as one of the top 3 or 4 folks and you should be able to wrangle some type of hand out.

That being said, with a 4.0, I assume academics are going to drive the bus on where he wants to go, as it should. With good test scores and a 4.0, he’ll get some money almost anywhere he chooses. One thing I have learned is that at private schools, almost no one pays list price and at public schools, the kids with academic credentials like your son’s do not pay full price either.

His swim times are not even close to Div I times but he could swim at any Div III school and be a point scorer at many. He’ll get some academic money at virually any of them and there will be some Div III schools with his times that will also kick in some more in the form of a “merit” scholarship that has absolutely nothing to do with athletics (wink wink).

14

This summer have your son reach out to coaches at the schools he likes to let them know that he’s interested and share with them his times. While it doesn’t sound like he’ll need it, coaches do have a way of getting kids through the rigors of applying by talking to their “friends” on the admissions committee. If nothing else it may get his application moved to the front of the line and get a decision sooner which will take some of the stress out of waiting for replies.

As mentioned, for a D1 school those times aren’t going to cut it. Not sure how D2 schools work but at the D1 level it’s getting harder and harder for men in sports like swimming to get any scholarship money. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is that there’s basically a big vat of money for athletic scholarships which is divided equally amongst mens and womens sports. If said school has a strong football/soccer/ice hockey/lacrosse (insert other sport of choice) that brings in revenue for the school then a huge chunk of the money from the men’s vat of scholarship funds will go to get good players for that sport - leaving little left over for other sports like swimming that just don’t really draw crowds.

So my recommendation would be to continue focusing on academics. The swimming angle will help show that he’s a “well-rounded” addition to the incoming class and keeping in contact with the coach may help get the application pushed through faster. Plus, you never know when a few extra $$$ in some form of scholarship funds - be it athletic or merit - will suddenly end up in the coach’s lap and s/he’ll be looking for someone to pass it along to.

15

It probably goes without saying but I wanted to point out that college coaches LIKE talking to high school kids. Its their job. Success as a college coach, in swimming or track particularly, is almost entirely determined by recruiting. My college swim coach spend at least 2 hours recruiting (making phone calls, attending age group meets etc) for every hour of practice he ran.
If you find a school you are interested in, have your son send the coach an email. He or she will be waiting for it.

As pointed out, one of the best perks a college coach can give is that little extra kick to get you into a selective school your kid might not otherwise have gotten into or at least make sure the 3.2 gpa student applying to Big State U does not get lost among the 6000 others with the same academic credentials. Coaches do get to send the the admissions department a wish list and while it is not going to get a 2.0 student into Harvard, it will most definitely put are marginal student over the edge.

16

Have you considered looking at schools in Canada? the best schools here are cheaper than the state schools in the US. At McGill, the undergrad students from the US pay around $14k a year (Canadian dollars).
That’s really not a deal for many state universities in the US. For example, UNC-Chapel Hill is less than 5K per year in tuition in-state. They are regularly ranked a top 5 public university. Private schools are another kettle of fish.

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why would finding a job be a problem if you went to a Canadian school?

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His swim times are not even close to Div I times but he could swim at any Div III school and be a point scorer at many. He’ll get some academic money at virually any of them and there will be some Div III schools with his times that will also kick in some more in the form of a “merit” scholarship that has absolutely nothing to do with athletics (wink wink).

We are well aware that he is not close to Div. I times. He has steadily dropped time over the last 2 years, and I think next year (if he stays on track) he might be breaking into the State qualifying times. I have seen some of the college times, and have realistic expectations.

Anything he gets would certainly be a combination with the academic.

I really appreciate everyones opinions. In many cases, they have validated my thoughts and feelings. This company does not guarantee anything (because really they can’t) but the thought that they can streamline the process does seem attractive.

He has a few knocks against him. Boys swimming is a relatively new program for his high school. Last year was their first season. So it is not like the school is known for producing great swimmers. They have a decent program though and the coach is adequate. He coached the girls team at the high school for a number of years and has produced a couple of D-2 swimmers from that program. In fact one of them is currently nationally ranked D-2 in the breaststroke and IM.

I really like the idea of having him contact some coaches of programs this summer. There are a couple of guys from the team who are talking about swimming with Club Wolverine over the summer and I figure that probably won’t hurt. Last summer one of the guys did it. He is one of the better swimmers on the team, but he did not really have a positive experience. Club Wolverine tends to really focus on the high caliber swimmers, and just give workouts to the rest. But I think having that on the resume can’t hurt.

(**Much harder to dig up who is willing to pay for a tight end with your kids skills). **

I chuckled at your comment here, and someone else’s too, at his “choice” of sports. He is a little bit challenged when it comes to most sports. He only sees out of one of his eyes at a time and has very poor depth perception as a result. This has really limited him in what sports he can be competitive in. For instance, sports that involve catching, throwing, blocking, etc. (you get the idea) he really can’t do. In Baseball it is pure luck if he hits the ball because he does not make the depth adjustment quick enough. Swimming (he has been doing this since he was 8) and track (brand new this year) are about it.

We, as his parents, have really focussed on the academics with him. We have never insisted that he get all A’s, only that he try and that he do his best work. His 4.0 is much more his doing than ours in terms of the pressure that he puts on himself.

This is an exciting and daunting process at the same time.

Again, I really appreciate everyone’s opinions on this.

Bernie

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**This summer have your son reach out to coaches at the schools he likes to let them know that he’s interested and share with them his times. While it doesn’t sound like he’ll need it, coaches do have a way of getting kids through the rigors of applying by talking to their “friends” on the admissions committee. If nothing else it may get his application moved to the front of the line and get a decision sooner which will take some of the stress out of waiting for replies. **

I really, really like this idea thanks. I do not think he will have trouble getting accepted to most colleges, but you are right, it never hurts to have a little bit of help. Plus, it is likely he will not have a job this summer and this is something that he can do instead.

Again, I am pretty aware that he is not D-1 material in terms of swimming competitively. Academics is his true ace in the hole.

Bernie

20

Matt,

Thanks.

**Second there seems to be TONS of odd ball money out there. Write essays, art, sports etc etc etc. Might only be 250-500$ bucks at stake and 10 thousand people going for it, but hell for writing an essay you can’t beat cash or any number of other things. **

I am aware of these, and pursued some of these options myself (as I am in college now, as an older student, I qualify for some really “oddball” ones). My son actually writes VERY well. He has been writing novel-like stories for a couple of years. Also, he is excellent at research.

**Third there are the federal programs. Mostly based on how much you make but none the less an option. We’re just diving into the whole FAFSA thing. **

I am already pretty sure we will not qualify for too much of that. While we don’t make a lot of money, we do have 2 professional incomes (nurse, firefighter). Most of my friends that have gone though this have not qualified.

**Fourth, look at the price of the school. I was quite surprised at exactly how cheap you could get a decent 4 year education. Maybe you’re not going to a “Well known” big name college or your “First choice” but if it’s 20K a year cheaper and money is tight it might be worth it. **

I would really like him to start thinking about colleges in terms of reality. He has thrown some school names out there, but honestly, I have no idea what his rationale is (girl, friend, teacher, who knows?).

**Fifth, community college. 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a 4 year college. Same degree, almost half the price. Of course you have to watch out to make sure the degree transfers and all that stuff. **

THe CC route is a strong possibility, but that might limit what he can do with the athletics. We are pretty strongly connected in the CC’s around here for various reasons.

Bernie