Anywhom, at my Master’s class last night (and I hesitate to use the words “master” “me” and “swimming” in the same sentence), our coach made the observation to me that “we have to get you kicking while you swim”. Hmmm.
Kicking drills, I’m fine with. Slow, but fine (sheesh, you’d think I’d move faster with size 14 feet). But as soon as I try to integrate the kicking into something that resembles freestyle, poof, it disappears. I just feel more comfortable when I don’t kick during freestyle, feel like I’m moving faster by not kicking.
When I do try and kick while swimming frestyle, people get alarmed – it looks like I’m having an epileptic seizure under water. Clumsy, no rhythm. Slows me down, makes me work harder. Doesn’t seem worth it.
I can’t be the only one with this problem. Anyone else have/had it? Any drills or helpful hints you can recommend
I read an article recently on swiminfo.com that if you can’t bend your ankle (down) more than 90 degrees then a kick isn’t going to help in propulsion, but, a slow kick may still help in balance. I have a size 14 as well and I don’t kick that hard, except when we doing 50’s. As far as those ankle flexiblity exercises, I’m wary of doing something that give me a problem when running. I think it’s been said before that if you are practicing swimming for triathlon and your race will allow a wetsuit, then why bother kicking.
When I kick while swimming freestyle, I’ll usually concentrate on going forward. Don’t just kick, but kick while concentrating on developing forward momentum. Imagine your legs are like a small engine on a speed boat. That worked for me.
i don’t kick at all when I swim, and i do swim pretty fast. i think some coaches over rate kicking while swimming for triathletes. i do do a fair amount of kick sets in practice, do believe it helps with core and leg strength.
You could probably learn to kick and go faster but, for triathlon and distance swimming, I think that’s overrated. As long as your feet aren’t sinking, you’re probably kicking enough. So, if you want to sprint, work on the kick, otherwise save your legs for the bike and run that follows.
There seems to be some sort of consensus around that triathletes needn’t worry too much about their kicks. I generally agree with this statement. The facts of one’s particular case are hard to decipher though.
At any rate whether you kick hard or kick softly, you probably will kick even slightly and subconsciously. So if you are GOING to kick to some extent, you might as well have that kick work smoothly with your freestyle stroke.
If you worked out alone all the time then we might say, wait until October and work on it then, given that you have a coach and he probably won’t quit talking to you about it, you should get an idea of what you are trying to accomplish.
My personal opinion is that a two beat kick timed properly will help with your rotation about the long axis. A six beat kick can add speed and help with rotation. You can get your rotation from your legs instead of your arms. Significant added speed from kicking seems to come at a high metabolic cost though, particularly for those of us who didn’t spend years on a swim team kicking our hearts out.
Luckily, coach emmett hines from Houston Swimming has laid out not only how to wok your kick into the freestyle stroke but laid out a nice drill progression to get you there.
There seems to be some sort of consensus around that triathletes needn’t worry too much about their kicks. I generally agree
My personal opinion is that a two beat kick timed properly will help with your rotation about the long axis. A six beat kick can add speed and help with rotation. You can get your rotation from your legs instead of your arms. Significant added speed from kicking seems to come at a high metabolic cost though, particularly for those of us who didn’t spend years on a swim team kicking our hearts out.
Right on, totally agree.
One other point to consider if you’re a wet suit swimmer. Because of the bouyancy of a wet suit you are higher in the water, especially your legs. This bouyancy helps with stroke and body position and improves most triathletes swim times. But that can come at the cost of kicking. Because you are so much higher in the water you are not properly set up for a good kick. In a nut shell your feet are to high and you cannot get enough depth to allow for decent pressure on your foot to promote forward motion.
Another thought is that 90% of thes races is a nearly leg only exercise, why add that extra effort to muscle groups that about to get abused anyhow?
Personaly I am a very strong kicker and used to kick my way through nearly every swim race I had. Now as a triathlete I try to back off the kick during races for the both the reasons stated above. No anaerobic as result of 6 beat kicking and no extra stress or added load on the legs than needed.
There seems to be some sort of consensus around that triathletes needn’t worry too much about their kicks. I generally agree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess I’m the dissenting voice, again. I swam and was a swim coch for years. Your kick is important with and with out a wetsuit. You don’t need to do a 1500m kicking the crap out of the water but you need to kick. Your kick helps stabilize your body. No kick = less efficient = slower swim times than you would have had and more energy expended than you would have expended had you done a small 2 beat kick. I think a 6 beat kick for distance swimmers is a bit much to be maintained for a tri but is valuable to help you bridge to the next pack or drop the pack your towing along. Most kick sets are poorly designed hence become a waste of time. 90% of all people kick using improper body position or a board. When you do drills be aware of your kick. Your already moving slower, hence sinking more, use your kick to stabilize and propel your body. If your ankles are not flexible put on the longer diving fins and kick underwater in a streamline position focusing on both the down and up kick. Backstroke kick w/ fins is also another option.
Exactly. I do the 6-beat kick pretty consistently during my master’s sessions, but as soon as I hit the open water, or for any race longer than a sprint, the legs go into minimum kick mode. 6-beat kicking uses up a lot of effort/oxygen, as you’re moving some pretty big muscles. Fine for a sprint where you’re going to be pushing your thresholds the entire race, but not for any longer distance.
But I still ALWAYS kick, even a 2 or 3 beat kick will keep you in a better body position which will mean an easier, faster swim.
As a former collegiate long distance swimmer (yes I used to swim the 1650, 500 and 400 IM at every dual meet), I use a 2 beat kick for balance. Two-beat kicks are one of those things that are hard to learn and/or practice with a board, but comes instead with a fair amount of time and comfort in the water. In any longer race, it’s worth saving your faster kick for the end when you are tired and need the extra oomph. Kicking with a kick board is not the best way to practice a swimming stroke kick, b/c it keeps you flat in the water. Best way to practice your kick is on your side, taking a stroke/breath every six or so kicks and then going onto your other side. (Bonus of this drill is that it helps you work on your roll on both sides, something that newer swimmers quite often need help with.)
I am wondering, though, if maybe one of your kicking problems is that you are kicking from your knees and not from your hips? When you do a flutter kick, most of the motion should come from your hip, with the knee a little bit bent, but leg relatively straight. With the leg straight, you’ll need to flex your ankle to propel yourself.
Keep up the swimming–remember most of us fishies don;t even remember learning how to swim so we have an unfair advantage!
I’m in the kicking camp as well. I also think that kicking *some *during a race, even a long one, is important to keep the legs fresh in addition to the efficiency issues you mention. If you do an IM without kicking at all, then you will most likely have some tight legs when you step out of the water.
You need to kick for body balance - even if you get no forward propultion from your kick - a kick that helps you maintain proper body balance will make you faster.
You need to kick while sighting for the bouys.
Work on your ankle flexability first. Sit in a chair and stretch your ankles - do this a lot. As someone else stated - this will help with running too.
Kick and swim with fins - not just zoomers but swim fins (speedo or TYR) – this will help stretch your ankles, strengthen your ankles, in will allow you to “feel” your feet and your kick and time your kick with your hip shift. ie develop that two beat kick that is optimum for distance swimming.
Even while wearing a wet suit - a kick will benefit the swim portion of your race.
Sounds exactly like my college swimming days, just switch out the IM for 200 breast every now and then. Distance rules.
There is always a “friendly”, ok maybe not that friendly, rivalry between the distance and sprint groups on my team. Most of our sprinters has a hard time doing repeats of any distance…they just died after 4 or 5 sprint 100s. We actually did a little experimenting and had the sprinters use a 2 beat kick, and the distance guys a 6 beat kick. Intersting results.
First, all the distance swimmers (including myself) were slower. Turned out that we concentrated to much on the kick, slowing down stroke rate and not enough roll We also were jumping into the anaerobic range.
The sprinters were similar. They went slower, cause their stroke was so dependent on the 6 beat kick for balance, they had too much roll (their hand was coming over the “half-way” point of the body, causing the underwater pull to be out of whack). But, they were able to do more repeats.
Personally, I used 2 beat for about everything, even 100 relays. It was just more comfortable and made my stroke more efficeint. On occation I would throw in the 4 beat kick, but it made my stroke very flat. 2 beat kick is defiently a learned skill though!
Unless you are doing a sprint tri (or have a drafter touching your feet), aerobic and 2-beat kick would be the way to go
we didn’t have too much of a rivalry between sprinters and distance types–our coach (female) was the world record holder for the English Channel (men’s and women’s records) at the time. We all did a lot of distance! BTW–her name is Penny Lee Dean and she’s published an Open Water book with some chapters that leven more experienced swimmers can learn stuff from.
I just feel more comfortable when I don’t kick during freestyle, feel like I’m moving faster by not kicking.
In a pool, with no buoy, you’re probably slower if you don’t kick. But, you’re not training to impress the master’s coach or to compete in a masters swim meet.
I’ve done a few 27-28 minute half IM swims with my ankles stuck firmly together – ie, I take care to never kick when in a wetsuit in a race.
Since that’s the case, I no longer bother kicking in the pool either. I use a pull buoy and paddles 90% of the time. Visitors to this and other boards (and the masters coach) keep telling me to work on my kick. I don’t, and I keep finishing in the top 5% of the swim.
Kicking with and without a board are very different than kicking while swimming. When you kick with a board your body is aligned. There is no lateral movement. When you swim, your arms and head movement might cause your body to snake through the water. Remember that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If your arms cross in front of your shoulders and you breathe by looking backward your hips will move laterally. One of the functions of your kick is to balance your arm stroke. If you have a scissoring action in your kick or a knee comes up as you kick it is an arm problem NOT a kick problem. Your kick will not be effective unless your arms work properly.