Hi all, Looking for support, humor, anger and whatever else crosses your mind.
Just got the “Job Elimination” notice. Welcome to the wonderful world of corporate downsizing and debt reduction. After ‘they’ take the company into billions of debt.
Who has been looking? How many months? Main question has anybody gone overseas to Kuwait, Dubai etc for employment and what to be careful of on Monster, Career builder or any other sites? I am flexible and will go anywhere, not sure the US will offer much anymore.
If you upload a resume on monster, don’t put personal info that you don’t want public. Their DB was hacked 10 days ago for the second time in as many years and data were stolen. I think LinkedIn.com is also starting to get folks a lot more jobs than monster because you actually know many people there. It’s easier to get in touch with someone hiring.
Welcome to the club of the over-qualified, unemeployed professionals. Prepare for the ups and downs of the job search. The ups are finding what you think is a great job. The down is finding out that over 100 people applied for the job and then not even getting an interview. Throw your pride out the window. I am an attorney that, because of the lack of attorney jobs and jump in attorney layoffs, has been forced to apply for paralegal positions. There are few things that deflate your sense of ego,accomplishment, and self worth than applying for a position that you used to supervise.
Here is a little sign of the times in my field. The following was posted on Craigslist in NY as a joke/test. Over 100 responses were recieved. Most were “I think this is a joke, but just in case, here is my resume.” Approximately 10-15 were real, legitimate resumes with cover letters. Two more responses were from recruiters looking to recruit for the position.
Associate Attorney (Midtown West)
Reply to: job-991754136@craigslist.org
Date: 2009-01-13, 5:41PM EST
Fast-paced 20-attorney law firm looking for an eager associate to join our growing practice. We understand that you may be a newly-admitted attorney looking for their first job. We also know that the economy is harsh right now. However, we are willing to give you a chance. Here are the details of this spectacular opportunity:
- **Your salary will be $30,000 per year. **We understand that this may be on the low end (since you probably are six figures in debt), but we will be able to give you unlimited opportunities for experience and you’ll be making six-figures soon enough. On the other hand, we will bill our clients $300 for every hour of your work; at least you will know your work is valued by us in several ways.
- There is no health insurance, but we have an on-site 2nd year medical student who will abide by the upmost professional standards take care of any illnesses or injuries that occur, both on-site and off-site.
- You will be expected to work 12 hour days, six (6) days of week. You will be afforded 1 week of vacation time, and three (3) sick days. Your vacation time is limited to the months of January and February, as we will need you to be in the office while the partners are taking their time off in the summer. The good news is that you will earn vacation and sick pay as soon as you start. The only holidays that the Firm observes are Christmas and Thanksgiving, but you must work a half-day, as we are a busy and important firm who adheres to our clients’ needs.
- **Your bonus, if earned (by billing 2100 hours per year), will consist of a one-year membership to a “food-of-the-mouth” club of your choice. **In 2008, every associate took advantage of this valuable program and has benefited greatly for their hard work and dedication.
Please email resume, cover letter, salary history, law school and college transcripts to the address above. We will also need you to take a drug test. All resumes and credentials will be held in strictest confidence
Here’s the funny part.
Most american’s live on two income familes, where each earns $30K to $40K, have only 1-2 weeks of vacation (including sick days that come off the vacation), with high deductible health insurance ($3K-$4K). How do I know this? Because this is what we pay many persons that work in my company - and there is a line of people applying for the jobs we offer, most which many would consider to be dead end jobs.
I don’t know why people think they are entitled to high salaries, 4 weeks vacation, all expense paid medical insurance, every holiday off, and a career ladder. And then they want to sit around surfing the net all day, while bitching about the clients, their boss and the company. I just hope this economic shock is a wake up call to the American worker.
I don’t know why people think they are entitled to high salaries, 4 weeks vacation, all expense paid medical insurance, every holiday off, and a career ladder.
Maybe it’s because 30-40 years ago anybody who wanted to work in the US could expect this… with pension, free health coverage, etc. You didn’t even need a degree!
Or what about any of the other decent countries in the world? They enjoy these things. Why should workers in the US be expected to be “satisfied” with a steadily declining living standard?
Here’s the funny part.
Most american’s live on two income familes, where each earns $30K to $40K, have only 1-2 weeks of vacation (including sick days that come off the vacation), with high deductible health insurance ($3K-$4K). How do I know this? Because this is what we pay many persons that work in my company - and there is a line of people applying for the jobs we offer, most which many would consider to be dead end jobs.
I don’t know why people think they are entitled to high salaries, 4 weeks vacation, all expense paid medical insurance, every holiday off, and a career ladder. And then they want to sit around surfing the net all day, while bitching about the clients, their boss and the company. I just hope this economic shock is a wake up call to the American worker.
Does this income & benefits package also hold for the top management at your company, or just for jobs closer to entry level?
Is your “wake-up call” something along the lines of “shut up, don’t complain, and take what you’re given without asking for more” ?
As for this sense of entitlement that you speak of, is there any hard data on it’s prevalence in the US adult population?
Is this sense of entitlement prevalent among your employees? Do you see it more in the (presumably unsuccessful) job applicants?
We must work in very different places or circumstances, as I don’t find this entitlement attitude common at all - I can think of exactly two people that I know that have this attitude.
I got the notice two weeks ago. I have until Feb. 20th. I’ve polished up my resume and posted it on the relevant job hunting sites. I’ve already had several recruiters contact me.
I’ve found 2 jobs off of Monster in the past. I know a lot of companies will search there.
It is very frustrating but not unexpected. I was on a 1 year contract so I was done in June, they just cut me off early. My projects had gotten slashed as it was so they were running out of stuff for me to do because they were cutting everything. There hasn’t been much happening in my world since Nov so it makes total sense. My worry is that contracts like mine are getting cut all over and finding something will be really difficult. It will be a miracle if I can get something with the same pay I’m earning now. There are a ton of people just like me flooding my marking right now. But, I know of several “Plan Bs” that I can do. I’m sure Safeway will always need grocery baggers.
There is a back-up of 40,000 unemployment insurance applications in my state. I might start the process early if nothing is coming through the week of the 16th. I’ve been paying into it I might as well draw from it. I am very fortunate in that my husband has a great job and carries all the benefits so while this is stressfull I know we will be OK. I’ve lost jobs before where things weren’t nearly as secure and lost a lot of sleep worrying. We are suprisingly lucky this time.
The trick to all of this is to find something that appears secure. Since I’m in software things are a little unpredictable and companies that were a sure bet for stability no longer are. I don’t see any safe industries where my skills are easily transferrable but I’m open to anything.
I like the idea of the complaining thread. Perhaps we can share nightmare interview stories 
I don’t know why people think they are entitled to high salaries, 4 weeks vacation, all expense paid medical insurance, every holiday off, and a career ladder.
You do realize you are responding to a post about a LAWYER earning 30K?
If I wanted to earn $30K, 1 week of vacation, a dead end job, and work holidays…I wouldn’t have gone back back to school and worked my ass off to get a good GPA in an engineering program.
I know a middle aged man who went to UAE 4 years ago and loves it. Plenty of opportunities for IT, engineering and middle management jobs. He makes a great salary and comes home several times a year. In his case he wanted a new place to live and he grew up in the middle east so it wasn’t totally foreign to him.
Also, my company does a lot of work in the glass industry there, we enjoy a great relationship with most of the folks in the middle east. There is still quite a demand for educated technical Europeans or Westerners.
Pluses…
good salary even by Western standards
great climate to enjoy the outside
obviously exciting area with all of the building going on
great shopping and restaurants
UAE is fairly “neutral” in the World political arena
Dubai has an inside ski slope attached to a mall!
You can vacation in Europe or Africa with only a two hour airplane ride.
Downers…
Strange customs from what we are used to…drinking alcohol for one.
blatant “slavery” of labor workers from Portugal, Spain and elsewhere.
duststorms…kind of cool at first though
you can’t down the road to see a professional sports game.
good luck! Definitely worth considering to ride out the economy…
I know this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but you could join the military. Even if you don’t have any skills, you start out at 15K per year (16K per year after 4 months service), full medical and dental, and 30 days of paid vacation per year (not to mention every federal holiday off). If you have some education, you can go into something like the Navy’s nuclear reactor program and you’ll start at 21K per year. With a college degree, you might be able to go in as an officer (starting pay of 31K per year). If you’re a doc or a dentist, you can start out at 41K per year. Throw in TDY per diem, housing allowance, hazardous duty pay, etc., and you’ll actually make more than these figures. You’re guaranteed a cost of living raise every year, and you’ll get a pay raise every couple of years for “time in grade” and/or for getting promoted. Pick a career field that they need (and/or there is a demand in the civilian market) and you’ll get a reenlistment bonus every few years. If you stay in for 20 years, you get a retirement check every month. You’ll have the chance to live overseas where you can pop over to France to watch the TdF, go into London to watch the Olympics, or participate in Xterra Guam without having to pay to get there.
Of course, you’ll have to wear a uniform to work, cut your hair, shine your shoes, and you might get shot at.
You do realize you are responding to a post about a LAWYER earning 30K?
If I wanted to earn $30K, 1 week of vacation, a dead end job, and work holidays…I wouldn’t have gone back back to school and worked my ass off to get a good GPA in an engineering program.
You do realize that every lawyer didn’t go to Harvard and doesn’t earn $500K+ per year? Most lawyers went to a two-bit school, barely passed the bar, and are happy filling out government forms that people can do for themselves for free. An education only gives you more options in job opportunities, it doesn’t guarantee anyone a high paying job, or any job for that matter. I am sure you also realize the average family income in America is around $50K, depending on how you cut it. That’s family income - as in if there are more than two people working, it’s added up together. And most people in America are in dead end jobs, even with an education.
I don’t know about every State or city law, but there are very few laws guaranteeing anyone a vacation - vacations are a privilage, not a right.
Does this income & benefits package also hold for the top management at your company, or just for jobs closer to entry level?
No.
Is your “wake-up call” something along the lines of “shut up, don’t complain, and take what you’re given without asking for more” ?
Yes.
As for this sense of entitlement that you speak of, is there any hard data on it’s prevalence in the US adult population?
Only from my personal observations.
Is this sense of entitlement prevalent among your employees? Do you see it more in the (presumably unsuccessful) job applicants?
I have worked at many places and have seen it all of them.
We must work in very different places or circumstances, as I don’t find this entitlement attitude common at all - I can think of exactly two people that I know that have this attitude.
What do you see where you work?
The only people I’ve seen who have that entitlement syndrome are recent college grads with their MBAs. Those of us who have been in the workforce for 20 years realize we are fortunate to have what we do.
We also have earned what we have and to ask for the equivant in our next job isn’t unreasonable. With the given job market, that will need to be adjusted. I fully expect to take a pay cut on my next job but I’m crossing my fingers I don’t have to. Once you’ve been through job instability you realize you are darn lucky when you have well paying, steady employment.
Even with reduced recruiting standards, I doubt the military would go near my -15.00 myopia.
You do realize that every lawyer didn’t go to Harvard and doesn’t earn $500K+ per year? Most lawyers went to a two-bit school, barely passed the bar, and are happy filling out government forms that people can do for themselves for free. An education only gives you more options in job opportunities, it doesn’t guarantee anyone a high paying job, or any job for that matter. I am sure you also realize the average family income in America is around $50K, depending on how you cut it. That’s family income - as in if there are more than two people working, it’s added up together. And most people in America are in dead end jobs, even with an education.
I don’t know about every State or city law, but there are very few laws guaranteeing anyone a vacation - vacations are a privilage, not a right.
I’m having a really hard time trying to figure out what kind of point you are trying to make. Harvard/2 bit college? 500K+/30K bad benefits? Can you make an argument without using strawmen to make your case?
Lawyer showed an ad for a law job offering $30K and crappy benefits that lawyers are applying to and taking seriously. Yes, the average household income is 50K. So what? What do average jobs have to do with a person with a Law degree hoping to get bad pay? Who feels they are entitled? WTF are you talking about?
What do you see where you work?
You weren’t addressing me, but I’ll bite.
A few years back I worked at a place that mostly hired people at minimum wage and no benefits. Even the managers made crap. The working conditions were terrible. Very good workers were fired on the spot for minor infractions of idiotic rules. They liked to hire college students from eastern Europe in the summer, and their concensus opinion was that it was worse than communism.
This was when unemployment was 4%! It was a real eye opener for me as I had always worked in a high tech/professional capacity before, where conditions were at least civil. I concluded that the job market was much worse for many people than the stats showed, or this company would never have been able to hire anyone.
I think I’m too old now. Isn’t the enlistment cutoff 36?
Plus, I feel no urge to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I have worked at many places and have seen it all of them.
We must work in very different places or circumstances, as I don’t find this entitlement attitude common at all - I can think of exactly two people that I know that have this attitude.
What do you see where you work?
I’ve worked at 2 high-tech startups, been an academic Dept. Head at a local university, and a big corporate R&D lab, with the lab job being for most of the last 21 years. Apart from the administrative support staff at each place, the minimum ticket to entry has been a masters (Ph.D. preferred, and the majority have had them) in some technical field (physics, math, engineering, CS, etc.). This probably weeds out most of those that aren’t willing to work hard for extended periods of time. A big chunk of the lab technical staff are now older (40+) and extremely good in their chosen field, so even in the very rare event that one of the young new M.S. / Ph.D. new hires crosses the line between confidence and arrogance, they soon learn that either the attitude goes or they do; it’s simply not well tolerated in the local work culture. Most of us have also worked elsewhere, and have figured out that we have a very good deal where we are compared to other jobs and so don’t want to mess that up.
The most spectacular flameout in recent years was a very bright guy brought in as a mid level manager and granted Technical Fellow status on the strength of his technical work. He didn’t last a year, precisely because he had this sense of almost royal entitlement to absolutely rule the people under him whether his decisions made any sense or not.
***I’ve worked at 2 high-tech startups, been an academic Dept. Head at a local university, and a big corporate R&D lab, with the lab job being for most of the last 21 years. Apart from the administrative support staff at each place, the minimum ticket to entry has been a masters (Ph.D. preferred, and the majority have had them) in some technical field (physics, math, engineering, CS, etc.). ***
You probably know this, but you don’t work where the average American works - considering the fact that approx only 5% of Americans have a graduate degree?
You probably know this, but you don’t work where the average American works - considering the fact that approx only 5% of Americans have a graduate degree?
Don’t lawyers count as part of that 5%?
I’m still trying to figure out your point. You want to compare people in the top 5% to average workers, and then someone counters your argument, you say they aren’t average workers.
Yes, people in the top 5% typically expect to make more than average. You seem to think that’s unreasonable. Why would someone with a solid techincal skill, decades of experiences in their field, and an expensive advanced degree be satisified making the same amount of money that they could right out of high school with no skills?