"just downright mean",Michelle Obama

The Coffee Shop
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More insight from Michelle Obama in the March 10 , The New Yorker
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http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/10/080310fa_fact_collins/?yrail
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Life in America is not good:we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is just downright mean,we are guided by fear,we’re a nation of cynics, sloths,and complacents.

Used to be,she will say,that you could count on a decent education in the neighborhood.But now there are all these charter schools and magnet schools that you have to “finagle” to get into.(she finagled her way into a magnet school)

Heath care is out of reach , let me tell you ,don’t get sick in america.(from someone who spent most of her life working in government and the health care system she has been part of the problem and now is going to “fix it”.)

College is too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree.You are looking at a young couple that is just a few years out of debt.(In 2005 she was making $316,962. give me a break)

I feel she is somewhat disconnected but claims to understand what is going on on the ground level.She needs to tone down the Jackie O fashion and address the chip on her shoulder.

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How did you get those “insights” from this article and how are they “downright mean”
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Haven’t paid much attention to Michelle Obama, and am not particularly a fan, but I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here for conversation’s sake:

“(she finagled her way into a magnet school)”

Then, who would know better what it takes to get in and how many people are left out?

“(from someone who spent most of her life working in government and the health care system she has been part of the problem and now is going to “fix it”.)”

Anybody who works in a troubled system is necessarily “part of the problem?” Maybe as a result of her experiences with the problem she has some particular insight on what it would take to “fix it.” I dunno, but I don’t think you can just say she’s “part of the problem” without an explanation of why you think that. The mere fact that she worked in government and health care most of her life is not a sufficient explanation.

“(In 2005 she was making $316,962. give me a break)”

Since I haven’t done anything to check on this, I’ll assume it is correct. Just because she makes a lot doesn’t mean she wasn’t “in debt.” I know plenty of people who make twice or even three times what I do, who are just broke in a better neighborhood. Fact is, college is too expensive for most people.

“She needs to tone down the Jackie O fashion and address the chip on her shoulder.”

What chip? Those statements are all true. Do they become less true because the speaker isn’t living in the projects and struggling for a paycheck?

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She said "life in a America in 2008 is not good:we’re a divided country,we’re a country that is just downright mean , we are guided fear…

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It’s a 10 page article (online). I only read the first page as it was coming across pretty much as a pro puff piece. I assume the comments in the OP were from later pages. Was this not the case?

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Doesn’t she have to wait eight years after her husband is done being President before it’s her turn to run?

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Those statements are all true.

Huh? I won’t touch the first couple because they are more a matter of opinion than anything else but these two are…well just wrong.

Heath care is out of reach

“out of reach” for whom? Considering that somewhere on the order of 70% of the people in the US are actually HAPPY with their health care how is it even close to “Out of reach”? Considering that EVERYONE can get medical care for free it is most definitely within reach.

College is too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree.

Uhh…What? That doesn’t even make any sense. If it where even close to the truth then no one outside of the super rich would go to college, and then only for a status symbol. Hell I can go to my local community college and get an Associates for 5-10K the last time I checked. For another 15-20K I can go finish up my 4 year degree at a decent 4 year college. So for 20-30K I have a 4 year degree.

Let’s see I was making 8$ an hour at Burger King with my HS degree but now can go out and make 50K with my 4 year degree. That’s a difference of 34K a year…wait that would mean I could recoup my education costs in one year. Yes no way to recoup ones college education.

Granted you’re not going to Harvard for four years on a grand total of 20-30K but one can most certainly get a college education for a fairly inexpensive price AND have a degree you can do something with.

~Matt

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It was a typical New Yorker profile - long and complex, balanced and interesting. The OP selectively pulled quotes to illustrate a predestined point. The larger point of the piece is that she is a tough cookie, smart and well-educated, from a very modest background, and down to earth. That means she’s going to say things that aren’t always designed for political consumption, like anybody would do. However, in the cauldron of political season, everything is used by people with certain agendas as a form of tea leaf reading in order to arrive at a particular conclusion.

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She is not helping Obama. How long before he’s able to muzzle her?

As to her points: Yes, we have problems in some areas. I don’t see what her problem with charter or magnet schools is. (Never mind the hypocrisy.) Healthcare needs improvement somehow, though it certainly isn’t “out of reach” for most Americans. College costs are getting pretty crazy, even for many public colleges- but as mjuric mentioned, there are still decent alternatives.

Seems like she points out some legitimate issues and goes on to inflate them into dire crises. And then takes the ridiculous leap that because some aspects in our society could stand improvement, life in America is “not good,” and we’re a mean-spirited nation.

Frankly, I find it offensive, as I suspect a good many others do.

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Heath care is out of reach

“out of reach” for whom? Considering that somewhere on the order of 70% of the people in the US are actually HAPPY with their health care how is it even close to “Out of reach”? Considering that EVERYONE can get medical care for free it is most definitely within reach.

Your 70% figure surprises me. I’m definitely not happy with my health care options, and I don’t pay a cent for my insurance. If I get sick, or hurt, though, I pay a hell of a lot (for me) in deductibles before my insurance kicks in. I know too many people who are crushed by health care costs because their insurance won’t pay, or because they don’t have insurance. How do I get that free medical care you’re talking about?

College is too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree.

Uhh…What? That doesn’t even make any sense. If it where even close to the truth then no one outside of the super rich would go to college, and then only for a status symbol. Hell I can go to my local community college and get an Associates for 5-10K the last time I checked. For another 15-20K I can go finish up my 4 year degree at a decent 4 year college. So for 20-30K I have a 4 year degree.

Do you know how much “$20-30k” is to somebody with nothing? Yeah, they can get loans, but the prospect of being $20-30k in debt after you get out and having no guarantee of finding work (I was shitting a brick after I got out of law school in the mid-90’s with almost $100k in debt and no real prospects for a job) may lead a lot of people to say “no thanks,” especially if they’ve got other debt as well (like, say, from health care providers because they had no insurance).

Let’s see I was making 8$ an hour at Burger King with my HS degree but now can go out and make 50K with my 4 year degree. That’s a difference of 34K a year…wait that would mean I could recoup my education costs in one year. Yes no way to recoup ones college education.

One year, huh . . . . how are you going to pay for housing, food, and other necessities when you’re paying off that student loan in one year? And I don’t know what part of the country YOU live in, but a college degree doesn’t guarantee you $50k a year. Shit, my first job out of law school (7 years in school, not 4), landed me a whopping $28,000.00 in 1995, and I was one of the lucky ones in my graduating class that actually GOT a job before taking the bar exam. Oh, and that $28k a year job was in Chicago, IL, where it’s a helluva lot more expensive to live than even Austin, where I live now. I didn’t make $50k a year until 2000, when I got a promotion after a year in my current job.

Granted you’re not going to Harvard for four years on a grand total of 20-30K but one can most certainly get a college education for a fairly inexpensive price AND have a degree you can do something with.

I would agree that it’s not impossible, but it ain’t as easy as you seem to think it is. We can’t all be top of the class graduates with a job on Wall Street lined up by graduation. And as the economy worsens and jobs become more scarce, the value of that college degree drops.

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Hmmm… as is apparent from your diatribe, she must be out of her mind. Clearly we are a country of syrupy sweet, overly complimentary people.

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Yeah, and after Obama is elected he is going to wave his magic wand and fix everything. Same old scare tactic sky is falling drivel from the left. Hypocritical b#>/h.

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She was quoted as saying that her country (the USA) was “downright mean.” That’s amazing, considering the amazing strides that Americans of African ancestry have made since 1964, the year of her birth.

She should keep flapping her gums, though. It can’t help but make everybody except those far left “liberal/progressive” whackjobs realize just how far out of the mainstream she and her husband really lie.

Self-hating Americans…they’re God’s gift to the Republican party.

T.

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How do I get that free medical care you’re talking about?

Well in the US you can get Medicare/Medicaid if you apply and are eligible In Illinois we have several state programs that cover a wide range of situations and anyone can walk into an emergency room at anytime.

Do you know how much “$20-30k” is to somebody with nothing?

What does that statement have to do with the original statement of a flat ***College is too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree. ***statement that covers everyone? Most people don’t look at 20-30K and say “Oh my god I’ll never be able to pay that back”. Sure a very few people that truly have nothing do but that’s not many. So in fact MOST people college is NOT to expensive for. For most a Harvard college education is to expensive but even four year colleges range widely in price. Looking at a local lower end 4 year college they use 7800$ a year as a good “Annual tuition cost” to figure budgets. Thats 31K for a 4 year degree. I just don’t see that as unable to recoup.

may lead a lot of people to say “no thanks,” especially if they’ve got other debt as well

Again a “Specialized case” that has little or nothing to do with the false statement that college is to expensive and you won’t be able top recoup the cost of a degree. Even your case apparently bares out the fact you CAN recoup that cost as I’m guessing you got a job and might be paying that 100K off.

One year, huh . . . . how are you going to pay for housing, food, and other necessities when you’re paying off that student loan in one year?

Same way you were when you were making 8$ and hour. My example is based on the idea that you were somehow living on 8$ and hour for four years of school and then got a job making 50K after your degree. Granted it a “Best case scenario” example but points to the fact you don’t HAVE to spend 100K on a college education and it’s pretty easy to recoup your money and in many cases pretty quickly.

And I don’t know what part of the country YOU live in, but a college degree doesn’t guarantee you $50k a year.

I don’t believe I mentioned “Guarantee” anywhere, just an example. Depending on degree one could easily get a 35-40K a year job in my area and I live in a VERY low wage area. Teachers start at around 32K in my district so I would guess your 28K in Chicago with a 4year 100K education is probably the exceptions not the rule.

I would agree that it’s not impossible, but it ain’t as easy as you seem to think it is. We can’t all be top of the class graduates with a job on Wall Street lined up by graduation. And as the economy worsens and jobs become more scarce, the value of that college degree drops.

Maybe you just chose the wrong job market. Like I said I live in a very low wage area and teachers get paid roughly 32K to start. Throw in a summer job and a 4 year degree gets you 36K a year to start, pretty much guaranteed. Nothing is easy and if you want to improve you life you have to work at it, college is no different and shouldn’t simply be a hand out. By no means it ***too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree. ***though.

~Matt

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College is too expensive and even if you can figure out a way to go you won’t be able to recoup the cost of the degree.

Uhh…What? That doesn’t even make any sense. If it where even close to the truth then no one outside of the super rich would go to college, and then only for a status symbol. Hell I can go to my local community college and get an Associates for 5-10K the last time I checked. For another 15-20K I can go finish up my 4 year degree at a decent 4 year college. So for 20-30K I have a 4 year degree.

Let’s see I was making 8$ an hour at Burger King with my HS degree but now can go out and make 50K with my 4 year degree. That’s a difference of 34K a year…wait that would mean I could recoup my education costs in one year. Yes no way to recoup ones college education.

Granted you’re not going to Harvard for four years on a grand total of 20-30K but one can most certainly get a college education for a fairly inexpensive price AND have a degree you can do something with.

FWIW, where I work you make a lot more money cleaning guns with a high school degree than you do as a teacher with a Phd.

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As to her points: Yes, we have problems in some areas. I don’t see what her problem with charter or magnet schools is. (Never mind the hypocrisy.)

I can only assume (since I can’t read minds) that her problem with charter schools is that they pull resources from the other public schools in the area. The fact that she went to a charter school doesn’t make it remotely hypocritical. Even if it was, I don’t think it woul deven be fair to hold something against her that she did as a teenager.

My friends wife said something similar. “The schools in Delaware are terrible because everyone is going to private schools and no one cares about improving the public school system.” “But you send your kids to private school.” “Hey, I want dearly to fix the public school sysetm here, but I’m not going to martyr my kids to do it.” ie…she’ll vote, she’ll volunteer, and she’ll contribute to improve the schools, but she’s a mother 1st and wants to make sure her kids get the best education they can afford.

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**where I work you make a lot more money cleaning guns with a high school degree than you do as a teacher with a Phd. **

I’m not even going to get into the “teacher with a Phd” thing. You lost me at making money cleaning guns. What?

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so you don’t pay a cent for your medical insurance but when YOU get hurt or sick, YOU have to pay a hell of a lot in deductibles before your insurance kicks in. Seems logical to me. Should someone else pay your bills for you? - E

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I’m not even going to get into the “teacher with a Phd” thing. You lost me at making money cleaning guns. What?

At the Aberdeen Proving Ground a technition can make $30/hr cleaning tank barrels. That amounts to $60K a year, though they don’t get benefits, so you can do the math on how much that would deduct their actual pay if they couldn’t get benefits from a spouse. This is a no skill job that only requires a hish school degree (if they even check for that).

A teacher in Cecil County, Md, for example starts at $40K a year and tops out at $62K after 17 years. One with a Phd earns $45K to $68K.

The point is, why go to college when you can clean guns?

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FWIW, where I work you make a lot more money cleaning guns with a high school degree than you do as a teacher with a Phd.

Yes sometimes the case, but my point is that you CAN get a decent 4 year degree on relatively low wages AND get a better job that will pretty easily be recoup able. I was actually using teachers as a “Worst case” scenario. IOW if you can get 31K for a teachers job in a low wage area you should be able to get a significant amount more in other fields. Say for instance in the medical field where around here a 4 year degree as a nurse will get you close to 70-80K. Now you can choose to get a 150K 4 year degree and be a nurse or a 30K 4 year degree and be a nurse. One is a lot easier to recoup than the other.

~Matt