Yes, if I wanted to be coached it’d make perfect sense to choose someone who is too arrogant to understand their own limitations and lack of knowledge in certain areas.
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I have never responded once to you , yet you keep responding to me like I care .
See this is the issue , I don’t want a discussion with you, because over the years you talk to me like this, no questions or anything on a positive note.
So why should I engage ??? What benefit can I gain with “ you”
You can try to downplay my knowledge and results all you want but it has yet to make you seem more knowledgeable etc??!
You need a holiday.
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USA Swimming “B” Times, 500yd Free:
- 10 yrs and Under, Girls - 8:36.69
- 11-12 yrs - 7:16.89
The basic talent thing is pretty relevant, and also basic aerobic capacity. In Joel’s podcast, he mentions that many endurance athletes generally, and adult onset swimmers/triathletes specifically, don’t have good proprioception or body awareness, which makes all of this that much more difficult.
As an example, my brother was a starting varsity baseball player at 2500+ student high school. Did swim two or three summer league season around age 8. Jumped into tri in his mid thirties, no problem picking it back up just swimming 2x/week. Certainly not a world beating swim talent, but swims towards the front of his local tris. Turns out his natural aerobic capacity/talent was actually quite high, but his general athleticism let him pick up the stroke quite well. Of course, he has trouble doing watts he should be capable of across a bike leg. Can’t have everything.
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Peace guys… perspective, and stuff
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Normal behaviour for Slowtwitch in “The off season”.
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It’s just that you come into these discussions basically talking down to people as if everyone that disagrees with your views are less enlightened than you and can’t possibly understand the topic at hand. That’s fine but it rarely leads to any good discussions and you should be able to handle some talking back if you approach things that way. That’s all and it’s not that serious.
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Proprioception - spell that on a spelling bee - is related to something else as well.
I was listening to a podcast yesterday with Mack Horton - well known swimmer.
He was a relatively late starter of swimming - only really starting at 10. One of the points they were getting into is that some kids - he would class himself as one - are very good at taking on instruction, and turning it into changes. Its either a combination of lack of ego, enthusiasm or their own intuition about the instruction.
Other kids are not - they do not like to be told what to do - and you can tell they are not listening. I think we can all relate to this in doing some volunteer coaching or trying to explain to children in your extended family to catch balls or throw properly etc.
This depends on the connection with the instructor as well but still an interesting point.
Adults are the same. Some like to figure out things for themselves even if thats not the most efficient way and they are plain doing something wrong. Some will do whatever you tell them even literally and then things go wrong.
He then said, as he became the athelete he was, its not so much about taking instruction, but having awareness and feel for the technique and being able to intuitively make the changes.
some misconceptions here that should be corrected.
Katie has an exceptional kick. While it’s not a perfect metric, she does 100s kick with a board on a 1:20 send-off (SCY). In the standard kick test protocol used at the USOPTC (arms out front with 5 second all out blast), she held over 1 m/s, which is consistent with the kick speed of a ~24-second 50m freestyler. Katie split a 52.7 in the 100M free when she anchored the US at the Olympics in 2016 and when she went to her legs she brought her 800 home in 28.4 which is the same as the split for the Mollie O’s WR in the 200 freestyle. I dare say her raw kick power is that of a world class sprinter.
The misconception that she doesn’t kick hard is generally built on the fact that when she is cruising in the 800 and 1500 she a. does a 1 beat kick and b. she kicks under the surface; an untrained eye, seeing little splash, wrongly thinks the kick power is lacking. But her one-beat kick is extremely sharp and forceful, and since most of the propulsion in a six-beat cycle comes from beats 1 and 4, what you’re actually seeing is efficiency and energy conservation. She translates her ability to sprint kick at a world class level to an incredibly powerful 1 beat kick.
There is a swimmer on here who competed at Florida under Greg Troy. And he said that they used bands regularly. So I made a note to ask Greg about it the next time I saw him: ) In his opinion bands are an excellent overload stimulus for world class swimmers. I took him to mean I should leave them at home. But who knows…
no AI here, just my personal experiences.
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Hence why there is no point is discussing here, TELL ME WERE I SAID “SHE DOESNT HAVE A GOOD KICK”!!! I said she doesn’t over kick ( epically compared to the general population, and has a pause phase during her kick and no muscle tension. Comparing WHY !!! someone could do TB drills to learn to break those habits of over kicking for balance and pressure and learning to relax and turn off muscles that don’t help movement but increase tension. AT not time did I say she has a weak kick, she has a very good kick that keeps load ahead of her torso, doesn’t overuse quad and calf tension and is not her leader.
IF saying she is so good at not making mistakes and over working is saying she doesn’t have a good kick Then were do I go from there???
through 2006-2010 I got my ass kicked on every kick drill or set by the same swimmers that exited every actual race behind me?? The biked sore and tight and ran sore and tight. So what good was that strong kick effort if you aren’t fast and efficient.
so therefore does a faster kick speed in a drill lead to faster swim sets ??? how much oxygen can you keep brining in during freestyle with that hard kick.
I say hard kick not fast as the speed of a limb instead the speed of the athlete. some people kick hard and don’t actually go forward at all.
Because virtually every race allows wetsuits and no one really benefits from a kick for 1000 Alex?
There are many reasons to kick in workouts, only one being to increase speed. And I would say it is well down the list of benefits. But you found what worked for you, and certainly there are many, many ways to skin the triathlon swimming cat to reach top performances.
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See why I don’t bother , not true a ton of races are no wetsuit ( kona, texas) , you don’t know all the other kick leaders have major back pain from over kicking and usually got out of the pool on big swim set day especially involving kick and fins, I could kick harder and go as fast as them but that is like pumping your arms sitting on your butt to think you will run faster once back on your legs.
You and me don’t have enough data about each other to fix , discuss or understand what we are trying to say it just loops around .
I got faster learning to copy the guy that didn’t kick at all like no kick going 1:08-1:10 long course m with a 6/10 effort . If he kicked hard he got maybe 1:05-1:07 yet needed rest of course . So yes you can add kick properly but at a cost and does a 1:40-2:00 min 100 m need to learn to kick harder or get a better body position and cut resistance down but 50% ???
The misconeption I was correcting is that she doesn’t kick hard in the 1500. You described it as “barely” kicking. That is not correct.
SHE IS BARLEY KICKING, ESPICALLY for 94 rpms .
If you watch this and say she is kicking HARD to you insane. this started about discussing of a TB around your ankles for 400 m of swim practice in a 20 km swim week will ruin your stroke. Do you avoid pedaling a bike with no hands because it wrecks your cycling technique ???
When you only do 1 or 2 beat kick, in some way that makes your kick 6 or 3 times more important than someone who does a 6 beat kick? People who can glide on their hips while still doing a 6 beat kick have really great technique. I guess you have to be quite flexible to do this.
I’ll address bands and their usage and your misconceptions about Katie’s kick separately:
You’re conclusions about Katie’s kicking come from youtube? Mine comes from talking with people who’ve trained or coached her, watching her practice a few times in my life and watching her race live many times (including an Olympic final). You should stop carrying on how your experience is superior to everyone around here.
Things she does differently: kicking forward from the hips, not up and down from the knee, and as previously mentioned kicking under the surface not over the surface (which really throws off the TV announcers and is the primary source of the myth that she isn’t kicking hard). I like the my son’s ( first hand experience) description: the flick she does at her ankle would tear most people’s tendons. The way I’ve experienced it is you can hear a metronome of thunder that her kick produces under all the other noise in a practice with 30 others.
Working off the video you posted, if you go to 9:30 ish on the race clock (12:35 in video) during the lap the view changes from a side angle where she is clearly kicking hard to an above pool angle where it looks like she’s barely kicking, and then back to the side angle. It’s almost like it’s a different swimmer and it is easy to see where the “barely kicking” misconception comes from when viewing the overhead shot. But you get a decent sense of the tendon tearing leg whip/thunder I alluded to from the side angle. Look at the speed and crack of her left foot and whisp of bubbles coming off when she completes the kick, take notice of the depth of her right foot, and consider the hip movement it would take to get that deep without (much) bending of the knee even though it looks like its just floating. The power from her legs blows me a way.
Regarding bands and your specific question, I don’t think 400 out of 20,000 would do anything one way or the other. I guess Id say, “bands? Meh.” Swim more, swim harder, stay away from toys.
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A new solo pod by JF
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I am definitely in the camp of running too hard on my easy runs. But I think swimming is different
JOhn Urbanek at Michigan (head swim coach for decades) did more research and testing on training zones than anyone. And he concluded that for a well-trained swimmer your Zone 1 pace (White pace) for a set of 100’s was your T30 pace, which is the fastest pace you can swim for 30 minutes.
if we were to equate this to running: 20 x 400’s at 10k pace (!) is basic white work. Obviously that would NOT be an easy run. Which is just to say that one would be wise to forget everything they know about zone 1 running when thinking about zone 1 swimming.