Justice was presumed from a legal perspective as the DA declined to seek indictments. These punishments, I assume, were issued after. All that’s left is code of conduct.
You cannot overstate what an unfuckable mess this is, from every possible vantage point.
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I can see a punishment for being drunk and doing drugs voluntarily (per her own statement immediately after) and having it go to the police.
The school took action against the men and expelled/suspended two for sexual exploitation/assault but I’d like to know the schools definition if the law itself didn’t come to that same conclusion.
Though I do understand a private institution can have more strict criteria than the law, and not more lax.
I heard a defendant lawyer claim that the ketamine accusations are untrue, that he tested negative via nasal swab (3 weeks later?) and blood test.
Did anyone cop to the ketamine accusation?
Will powdered ketamine even stay in the system detectable for 3 weeks? Everything I’m reading says up to a few days.
My apologies, it was a hair follicle test. I’m not sure he was ever accused of using it, but I’d have to cross reference my male numbers with actual names.
Per google, none of the accused men in the “Cornell 7” lawsuit have admitted to using ketamine or participating in the alleged drugging.
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Ahh Gocha ok. That makes more sense. I hadn’t even thought about that aspect (the men’s comments about the ketamine).
I still can’t wrap my head around her initial statements. Earlier upthread you posted An analysis that contrasted her 2024 statements about the chain of events to the current civil suit statements on the same events.
She initially went to the police and swore statements. If she was upset and wanted to report illicit activity then why would she fabricate events that actually show voluntary participation, respect from the men whenever she wanted to stop, and completely different accounts that don’t paint a negative picture? I’m having a hard time trying to figure out why we shouldn’t take the 2024 account as the accurate one.
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Those punishments are quite a bit more severe than what JD alleges in her complaint:
“181. On or about November 8, 2024, temporary suspensions were also issued for several
students, including Defendants INGALLS, NEWELL, LEE, LOPES, SARABIA, NORRIS, and
KRETSCHMAR, who were afforded the opportunity to mitigate their conduct by submitting
essays to CORNELL.”
A university has its own responsibility to maintain a safe environment, which is separate from whatever is happening on the law enforcement side. It cannot wait, potentially a long time, until the criminal justice system has run its course. If this occurred in a work setting, rather than a school setting, would anyone argue that the employer must keep the employees until any criminal proceedings have been fully and finally resolved?
There are the rules of the institution, the legal laws, and the court of public opinion.
Which is why I said that I understand that a private institution/business can maintain a more strict set of rules and expectations. That being said, in the realm of code of conduct, why were the men the only ones found to be in violation? Her initial statements said she willingly engaged in all activities illegal and legal? But I haven’t heard that her admission was revoked, only that she left school.
In a private business I would absolutely expect to keep my job if someone accused me of something that wasn’t true and I’d lawyer up if they let me go. Unless that job had be sign a contract that prohibited me from engaging in relationships/relations with coworkers or doing drugs. And I know the school doesn’t have students agree to not engage in sex. But they will have them adhere to a code of conduct that prohibits underage drinking and drug usage, which brings me back to original point that she was also willfully in violation of that code of conduct by her own admission.
I still maintain that in these circumstances the men are almost always the ones on the receiving end of unjust treatment, especially in the eyes of the public in an age of doxing.
Just putting this here because I don’t feel like searching for the post above where someone was arguing something about the accused being white. I was surprised when I saw their picture today for the first time and one of them is Asian and two look black/mixed race.
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I was just commenting on timing. The school discipline and the law enforcement processes can proceed in parallel. Neither has some obligation wait for the other.
In terms of strictness, they are just different. I agree there are times (like plagiarism or cheating) where a school code is much stricter than a criminal code. There are times (like smoking pot) where a typical school is less strict. Back in the day, a typical school would not discipline a student for smoking pot, even though that was a crime.
As for Jane Doe, a school has to give an incentive for people to come forward. If you suspend/expel her for underage drinking and ketamine, then a victim of rape is less likely to report the event to the school. That does not mean they condone the drinking and drugs. It means they will give her a pass on that in order to address the sexual assault issues/problem.
I don’t know if it’s just or not, but I’m interested to see how this plays out for JD. I get the impression that a lot people think she was drugged against her will, passed out and frat boys invited their bros over to rape her. Whatever you think about what happened, it wasn’t that.
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They have similar passes if you are calling to report someone who is needs medical attention for drinking too much. If you call and request help for someone then you don’t get a honor violation.
I agree with you, and out of the major stories that break this seems to be one where the woman admitted a significant amount of the “evidence” that allows us to come to that conclusion. And the NYS law as written doesn’t help her case.
But seeing as how this is a civil suit, and the assigned AG and NYS governor have already proven to be biased for her I don’t see the true story being done justice; and the internet is already doxing them and others with the same names, and their families.
I was talking to someone who shall remain nameless and when I brought up these issues, I was told it is victim blaiming and that if she did do the things she says she did that the guys must have forced her to do it.
Oh I didn’t even mean with respect to plagiarism etc. I meant literally in this case. NYS law as written didn’t find any sexual assault which is why it couldn’t bring charges. But the school did consider what happened to be sexual assault and expelled/suspended/punished some of the young men.
And as for the incentive to come forward, it seems like, at least in this case, whoever comes forward first is the one incentivized to be protected. We already have two statements from two of the different men saying she actually sexually assaulted them and initiated the contact that they didn’t want. Now; I have no clue what actually happened but it’s literally a he-said/she-said and only the first one to come forward is protected doesn’t do justice when they were all consenting adults and expulsions and suspensions were handed out.
I cannot stand the “victim blaming” card. To me, and maybe I’m wrong, it exploits an illogical weak argument as it means the person thinks everything is black and white in every matter of right and wrong. People argue it based on what “should be happening” or “what is the fair thing to be happening” in stead of realizing the reality is that we live in an imperfect world.
It is completely logical to believe and understand multiple parties can bear responsibility for a particular outcome.
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This is one of those situations where people have a hard time not projecting their own issues into the remaining questions, or setting aside their own feelings about sex outside of a traditional setting. Reference one of forum members comments here.
It’s the no true Scotsman fallacy applied to sexuality. She couldn’t possibly have wanted to do what she said she wanted to do.
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In a private business I would absolutely expect to keep my job if someone accused me of something that wasn’t true and I’d lawyer up if they let me go
Good point.
Do we know if any of the accused, who maintained their innocence from the outset, retained a lawyer or otherwise attempted to fight the school’s punishments? Being expelled from an Ivy League university is no small thing.