In short, my 17yo’s hard work has paid off. Finals at the US Rowing Junior Nationals and US Rowing Junior National Development Team this summer has set her up well on the recruiting front. (yes, I say all this with a proud smile on my face)
Sooo, I’d like some feedback on paying for Princeton or Cornell (no athletic scholarships), vs. 1/2 or better scholarship at UVA, UNC, Notre Dame or Cal. Those are her top 6 schools. Based on combined income, we’ll have to pay nearly all of the $45K+/year for Ivy. Princeton has a nice ring to it, but does the pedigree justify the upfront cost?
It’d be good to know what her planned major is with regard to the schools.
Also, any chance on you being in-state for the non-Ivy’s? All her non-Ivy options are very very good (I’m in VA, and UVA, much to my chagrin as a Terps fan, is a terrific school; same for UNC).
I think Art went to Princeton, a few others here to other Ivy’s.
I remember having read research that says the top % of students from non-Ivy’s end up doing just as well in life as the Ivy’s, so bear that in mind. Also, I’d give some thought as to the other attributes of the school (size, location, student life, etc), as they will play a bigger role IMHO in her views on her time there than anything else.
If I were in this delightful predicament (congratulations, by the way), I’d first consider what I could afford. If sending her to Princeton means going into debt or jeopardizing your ability retire sensibly, don’t do it. If you can afford it, then my next question would be “What does she want?” If she’s a brainiac, she’ll probably want to go to Princeton. I went to UT Austin and never even considered the Ivy League because I was the oldest of four kids and three of us were in college at the same time. I really, really wish I could have gone to a school like Princeton – not just because of the name, but because the quality of faculty and quality of student body are amazing in a way that I believe is impossible to replicate in a big school setting. That said, the other schools on the list are pretty amazing choices also. There is no “wrong” choice in this situation.
I went to a non Ivy undergrad on an athletic scholarship and I think what others have said is what’s important. What does she want to major in? What is she looking for in terms of school “feel” (ie, size, location, campus type, etc). Truthfully all the schools you listed are top notch and I think many people consider UVA and the likes as “unofficial” ivy’s when it comes to job search.
As a former college athlete my advice to you as a parent is make sure that she actually wants to compete at a college level. And keep in mind that she may after a few years become burnt out and quit (I know it seem unlikely now but I saw it happen to more than a few teammates when school got stressful and you realized that there is no women’s professional swim team who is going to pay you millions of dollars to swim for them) in which case you want her set up in the best possible school for her academic studies.
Friends of mine who did go the Ivy route says that it definitely helped open doors for that first job but after that, as others have pointed out, a lot of it is how you perform job-wise. Or just go to an Ivy for a grad degree.
“Princeton has a nice ring to it, but does the pedigree justify the upfront cost?”
Yes. It is worth it many times over.
Obviously this depends a great deal on your daughter. She is going to really need to have the intellectual fire power to get by in the classroom at one of the top Ivy league schools. She will get zero academic consideration for being on a competitive team, and the going is tough enough without the athletic obligations. There are no basketweaving or automatic ‘C’ courses in the top Ivy schools. If she isn’t in the top few in her high school class academically, she might be much better served to take a pass on a school like Princeton, even if she can get in. On the other hand, it is pretty unlikely she will get admitted if she can’t cut it. You really can trust the admissions process in that regard.
Some of the best rowing in the country is in Lake Carnegie, and it is a short walk from the main campus. I used to run along the canal path on a daily basis. I don’t know where in the US you could find comparable facilities with the exception of the second best school in Cambridge whose name escapes me at the moment.
Your kid has done the work. If she makes the cut to Princeton, you should do the work and cut the check, if you can. You won’t regret it if she really is a match for the place.
No particular slap at Cornell, but I don’t see the advantage of Cornell over something like Notre Dame if the latter offers a scholarship. Who wants to be in Ithaca anyway?
By Cal I assume you mean Berkeley. It is hard to criticize that place academically, and maybe it is the best value in the country since it is cheap. Berkeley is a pretty funny place though, so make sure you know what you are getting into.
Your son sounds like he is in the same boat my neice was in not long ago. Congrats to him.
My neice elected to take the scholarship to Rutgers, and just finished her first year there. She’s doing very well so far, and is happy with her decision. She’s planning on studying in Italy next summer. She figures she’ll have the chance to go to an Ivy League school for graduate school, if she wants.
What’s your son planning on majoring in? That was part of my neice’s decision- at the time, she was undecided, and she didn’t see the point in paying $40,000/yr if she decided to be a social worker. (She’s declared majors in English and Philosophy, so maybe that was a wise choice.)
I went to a ‘scholarship school’ and was on the rowing team (i had a partial scholarship… but not the point). I didn’t even look into going to an Ivy b/c it wasn’t what I wanted college to ‘feel’ like.
the point is that i saw a lot of athletes have to sacrifice their academics for sports. the pressure to excel in rowing was a lot greater than the pressure (or lack thereof) that anyone put on them to excel at school. the athletic dept fixed our schedules so that we got first pick of courses and got recommended which were the easy profs to have. needless to say, a lot of our girls graduated in 4-5 years with no real academic credibility and were also completely burnt out on the sport and/or were permanently injured.
by sophomore year, my impression was that most college athletes got burnt out in their sport but had to stick it out b/c of the scholarship. the exception would be the football and baseball players who knew they had a chance of turning pro. otherwise, the rowers, swimmers, tennis players, runners, etc. all hated it.
my vote would be to apply to both but go Ivy if he has the choice. Would he not be able to row at an Ivy? If not, they all have very competitive rowing organizations at the club (and varsity, obviously) level. At least this way, you are guaranteed (hopefully!) to get a good education and still be able to pursue your passions. Don’t underestimate the power of a good education (and the name of a good school on a resume!).
I remember that thread, at the time I was looking down the road a little, but now it is upon us. btw, that “son” is a daughter.
The point you and others have made regarding “what major?” is a concern. Probably, knowing her, a broad science or a humanities major is most likely in the beginning. Hopefully I can turn her eyes toward the fascinating world of economics and then international business, but that is unlikely. If she was driven in a certain direction, it would make the Princeton call a lot easier.
This is one reason I never had to make the decision about whether to go to Princeton or take a fat scholarship somewhere else.
At any rate, it sounds to me like you don’t have much to worry about either way. I would bet that she’ll do well wherever she decides to go. That was one reason I didn’t worry too much about which school my niece decided to attend- either way, she’s going to do OK.
Shocking how much college costs today, though. Yikes.
*On the other hand, it is pretty unlikely she will get admitted if she can’t cut it. You really can trust the admissions process in that regard. *
She’ll get in based on grades/test scores, at least according to the coach.
Some of the best rowing in the country is in Lake Carnegie, and it is a short walk from the main campus. I used to run along the canal path on a daily basis.
Did you see the pictures of the boat house flooded this year? I’m too lazy to post them now, but take a look around the internet.
Your kid has done the work. If she makes the cut to Princeton, you should do the work and cut the check, if you can.
That sort of rings true to how I feel. All I want to do is retire to a small cabin in the Rockies, but I pictured it as being more than a 1 room cabin!
*No particular slap at Cornell, but I don’t see the advantage of Cornell over something like Notre Dame if the latter offers a scholarship. *
The one school she seems most interested in is the Hotel Management school at Cornell, best there is. But I agree, money for ND would be a plus.
*my vote would be to apply to both but go Ivy if he has the choice. Would he not be able to row at an Ivy? *
Thanks, definitely can row Ivy, but Ivy’s are not allowed to give athletic scholarships - sort of an honor code. I hear what you say about burnout/injury. Of the 4 girls that got scholarships to row during my daughter’s sophomore year, 2 spent their freshman year hurt, and I think both of them may give it up. She’s driven in rowing right now and wants to be with an NCAA contender, but who really knows what the future holds.
I guess I’m saying that it seems like she can have both rowing and education at an Ivy. She’ll be competing at the top level - just not on ‘scholarship.’ I know a lot of non-D1 schools will find some ‘book’ scholarships or partial academic scholarships or some obscure scholarship money they keep in a slush fund if they really want to give her some incentive to row there…
Unless you are going to Olympics or going pro in a sport, I wouldn’t necessarily place too much emphasis on collegiate sports. If she’s smart enough to get into an Ivy, then she has a really bright future ahead of her.
What does she want to study? I think that should also play a role.
I missed news of the flooded clubhouse. I am sure the school has waved its magic checkbook and fixed it by now.
If she really does want the hotel management gig, then, yes, Cornell is the place. Ithaca still sucks though.
If your kid has stepped up, maybe you need to think about ways to step up and make more money. You aren’t over the hill yet, are you? $200K or so over a lifetime really isn’t all that much money in this country. It is probably in the rounding error of what you will make on home appreciation somewhere along the line. Suck it up, keep your aging ass in shape, and retire a year or two later. It will likely be for the best anyway. Retiring sucks almost as much as Ithaca.
The burnout thing is real, and a likely scenario. Worst case, she blows off the rowing and graduates from Princeton. I wish someone had hurt me with that problem. Neither of my kids could handle Princeton at that stage of their development.
Where you go to grad school is far more important than where you go to undergrad. The biggest advantange she’ll get in an Ivy League school is that she’ll be more likely to marry wealthy…she might meet a nice young version of Art! ; ^ )
I am 45 years old. I had an ROTC scholarship. Could have gone to Princeton but chose Washington & Lee instead. I had a great run at W&L and just dropped my daughter off there for her freshman year. I wish I had chosen Princeton. If she can go to Princeton and it is her first choice, man up and pay for it.
Where you go to grad school is far more important than where you go to undergrad.
Agreed, the step up is always nice (Illinois considered the “expensive” in-state by the family, Georgetown for professional degree when I realize the value of the institution). That said, starting out at Princeton and not having to step up would be nice.
If she can go to Princeton and it is her first choice, man up and pay for it.
One factor unmentioned is I’m not sure my wife is up for it. Both of us came from “undereducated” parents that were enlisted. She went to a city college and lived home a lot. I went in state for undergrad. Getting her to realize the value is half the battle.
I know this was just a joke, but it still makes me sad that marrying wealthy was even brought up in this thread.
I apologize. Since we are on an Ivyleague thread here I don’t want to say too much because I know I’ll get slammed…but hey, its the lavendar room!
I have a jaded view of the Ivy League. I grew up in full belief of the American dream. I worked hard and got accepted to UPenn. The day we got back from our visit with financial aid was, honestly, the first time my eyes had really been opened. It really was all about how much money you are born into.
Yes, the Ivy League’s are good schools. However, the best advantage you’ll get out of them is hob-knobbing with the elites of society…the rich person’s club, so to speak. The connection you make in those schools or simply the connections you’ll make simply because of a name at the top of you rresume is far more important than what you’ll actually learn there compared to other state schools.
However, as many will attest here I’m sure, 90% of the time it’ll be your grades and job performance that’ll make or break your opportunities. In that case, save the money, take the scholarship, and make sure the Daughter gets into a solid grad program paid on a stipend. Invest the saved capitol and use it as a downpayment on her first house.
My 2 cents…but then again, I’ve never benefited from an Ivy League program, so my 2 cents may not be worth much.
There is no better way to spend your money than to educate your children. Princeton will open doors that few if any other places can … for the rest of her life. One note of caution. She must want it. Otherwise, it won’t matter where she goes to school. If she can get in, Princeton will make sure you can afford it. You may not choose to afford it, but you can. My advice is to set the money piece aside. She must balance her academic and athletic goals and pick the right place for her. If she gets injured or loses interest in rowing, will the school still be a good choice? We went through this with my daughter and lacrosse. She was being recruited but was not excited about the places offering dollars. She chose W&L and will play Div. III lacrosse. The cost is similar to Princeton. Good luck.
I know this was just a joke, but it still makes me sad that marrying wealthy was even brought up in this thread.