I've been datamined -- help me find out who did it

The Coffee Shop
1

so i get a letter today from farmer’s insurance. it says i’m rated at 12,000mi a year and i’m really driving 16,800mi a year, and if they don’t hear back they’re going to rate me that way. this, based on a recent odometer reading they got off my truck.

so i explain in a letter back that i’ve driven 37,065mi in that truck (minus the miles on the truck before i bought it new), in 34.5 months, and that’s 13,085mi annually. plus, i had to wait 7mo last year to get the special order car from the factory, and if you amortize this out i’m really driving 10,800mi per year.

but what really peeves me is that 3wk ago i bring the car into the dodge dealership for the 3year service, $700+, and it appears they turned around and gave the odometer reading to farmers, which means farmers probably paid for it, and they did so without my knowledge or consent, unless there’s some small print consent in the work order.

i can’t figure out where else farmers gets my odometer reading, as charlee, morgan, babe, nelson, punkin and bubba rip the living jesus out of anybody tries to come on the property and get it. but, chrysler swears on a stack of its mother’s love letters that it’s not the one.

the truck wasn’t smogged since i bought it, so they didn’t get it from the calif bureau of automotive repair. it wasn’t bought used, so they didn’t get it from carfax. who knows the answer to this one?

2

That information has been known to places like www.carfax.com for ages. Most service visits, emission test visits, etc. that prompt an odometer reading get reported. Heck, I can look up your car right now if you give me your vin #.

3

Did you try asking Farmer’s? CA has some pretty good privacy laws, so they might have to tell you. Whoever did do it should have to tell you (not sure if that’s the law there or not), if you can find them.

4

are you saying that my dodge dealer reports my odometer reading to somebody? why would they do that? what’s in it for them, and do they not fear any blowback from that?

5

Chrystler did it. Not the dealer you went to but any dealer. When I bought my last car I went to a dealer, where I know a guy, with the VIN# and got the service history, it included milage so I know it wasn’t rolled back. I’m sure big companies "know more guys than me

Having the record lets you go to any dealer and they’ll know all about your car.

6

Ask 'em. Seriously, they’re trying to raise your rates. Tell them you disagree with their reasoning and ask them the basis for their position. Be patient and calm. Speak to a supervisor. I’ll bet you eventually find out exactly what it’s based on. (By the way, we just got a notice like that on my wife’s car. They were spot on. I think they pulled it off the smog certificate.)

Benjamin

7

here’s the letter i sent to farmer’s:

Farmers Insurance
Underwriting Department
Attn: xxxxxxxx
RE: policy # xxxxxx
Simi Valley, CA
FAX: 866-741-3190

Dear Farmer’s Underwriting Department:

In response to your recent correspondence attached, be informed that my actual mileage to date on the 2005 RAM truck is 37,605. If you would like me to drive the vehicle to my Farmers agent so that she can verify this, please advise. I’ve had this vehicle for roughly 34.5 months, and this generates an amortized annual mileage of 13,085, far less than the amount you suspect I’ll drive in the policy period upcoming.

Furthermore, there are two vehicles and one owner on this policy. You’ll appreciate that one cannot, without extreme difficulty and a considerable talent I do not enjoy, drive more than one vehicle at a time. There was a 7-month period in between the sale of my 1999 Dodge, and awaiting the arrival of my factory ordered 2006 Chrysler 300, where I only had the RAM pickup. This 7-month wait added to the mileage I customarily drive the pickup. If you adjust for this you’ll note my annual pickup mileage is between 10,000 and 11,000 miles.

But, as I do not like to over-promise and under-perform in my warranties to those with whom I have a contractual business relationship, let’s assume 12,0000 miles to be on the safe side.

Let’s talk for a minute about those contractual business relationships, and the trust that ought to be implied in them. I enjoy having Farmers as my carrier, and I do not mind at all that Farmers uses whatever means it has at its disposal to ascertain what my true use is, so that it might attach a rate adequate to the risk. Nevertheless, some other entity with which I contract to perform a service abused this relationship by sharing my personal information with Farmers without my consent and knowledge.

Accordingly, I am now formally asking Farmers to divulge the entity providing it my odometer reading. I look forward to your reply.

8

Wow, that’s f’ing beautiful…

9

“Having the record lets you go to any dealer and they’ll know all about your car.”

i’ve got no problem with that. my problems are twofold: first, if they’re giving this info to farmer’s, farmer’s is paying for it, and i’m not getting paid from that revenue stream. second, if the dealer wants to datamine me, and share that data, fine, but i want to be informed of it, and given the right to either deny such datamining, or take my car elsewhere for service.

10

My sister is a Farmers Insurance agent in southern California. I’ll forward this thread to her and see what she knows about it from the customer interface end of it. However, from past discussions with her, Farmers the corporation tends to tell its agents even less than they tell the public, so I wouldn’t expect any spectacular insights.

11

second, if the dealer wants to datamine me, and share that data, fine, but i want to be informed of it, and given the right to either deny such datamining, or take my car elsewhere for service.

Interesting to hear that that information was used in this manner, essentially “against” you. Never heard of it, but it’s not surprising. What I’d be curious about was what prompted Farmer’s to even look for that info? Is it time for annual policy review?

As others have said, it’s doubtful that there was anything from the dealership level that caused Farmer’s to gain access to your info other than inputting it into Chrysler’s computer systems. If you don’t want that info divulged, perhaps in the future go to an independent mechanic.

However, that info gleaned from those records does help to maintain track records of individual cars and help expose odometer disrepancies, etc. But this is a first for me…have to keep track of that as I come across folks buying cars here.

12

charlee, morgan, babe, nelson, punkin and bubba<<

I have a dog named after me? Photos please.

Liberty Mutual sent me a letter saying they were raising my rates and I called and asked why and the nice lady said something about driving x miles/year. I told her the truck is generally parked at least 5 days/week and the odometer was 40,000 for an almost 6 year old truck. Rate immediately lowered to even lower than it was originally.

clm

13

That letter will have to go up the food chain five levels before they can find someone who can comprendo what you are saying.

This smells like a state of CA thing. I wonder if ithere is some non-descript DMV form that gets filled out with a dealer repair.

14

“You’ll appreciate that one cannot, without extreme difficulty and a considerable talent I do not enjoy…”

That is a great line! Nicely done…

15

“…let’s assume 12,0000 miles to be on the safe side.”

Let’s hope that the version you actually mailed didn’t include the extra zero! :wink:

16

It looks like we finally found out what that argument with Ashcroft in the hospital was about. It was obviously Gonzales that datamined you against the wishes of John Ashcroft.

Imagine that. John Ashcroft fighting for Slowman’s privacy. I bet you feel so ungrateful.

17

art, you are nothing if not reliable.

18

The Gramm Leach Bliley Act kinda sorta protects your personal financial information from being passed around like this. You get a privacy poilicy from each financial institution that you contract with each year and an opportunity to opt out of information sharing…very few people sign them. There are also a patchwork of state regs that tinker with the issue but GLBA is the standard.

There are no federal laws that protect general consumer type information. Safeway can tell Red Hook how much beer you buy, and which brand. You can say that that is your personal information, Safeway will say its data that they generated and that they have proprietary ownership over.

Your dealership did indeed sell your information to a data broker and there’s not much you can do about it except service your own vehicles. Its not protected information.

19

Most likely, Farmer’s got your info from a third party. As a part of lemon laws, car manufacturers are required to keep very meticulous records of all your contacts with dealers and company personnel, including miles on your vehicle at the time. This data is shared (sold?) to companies like Carfax, who then may provide it to insurance companies and other entities. I’m not sure, but this kind of information may even be publically available as a part of lemon laws in CA.

Most likely, you personally were not data mined, just the VIN of your car, which Farmer’s was then able to cross reference to you. I.e. Chrysler didn’t tell Farmer’s that Dan ‘Slowtwitch’ Empfield’s truck had XXX miles on a certain date. Rather, Chrysler reported that VIN ABC123 had XXX miles on it when serviced on whatever date, then Farmer’s searched their records and determined that they provided insurance to you for this vehicle.

As a “big three” employee, I have been repeatedly coached on what we can and cannot say to a customer without running afoul of lemon laws. A OEM employee casually asking someone how they like their car and having them reply that they have a problem can count as a “strike” against a lemon law repair issue. While the lemon laws are a good idea to protect consumers, the execution leaves something to be desired.

20

“The Gramm Leach Bliley Act kinda sorta protects your personal financial information from being passed around like this.”

Odometer readings aren’t “personal financial information.” My guess on this is that, based on Lemon Laws, the dealership is required to log your mileage at service appointments to verify that there has been no odometer fraud over the span of the vehicle’s life. That database can be accessed for free over the internet in any number of ways, providing a safe and easy way for consumers to verify what they are getting in a used car. So, neither Chrysler nor the insurance company sold or bought anything, they just used the information that is already out there.

Dan, if I were you, I might use the numbers you provide to see if you can get a discount. I saw an article that said the difference between 12k and 10k a year could be as much as 2-3%, which isn’t a fortune, but is a few bucks, and if they got it wrong to begin with, they might be willing to help you out to keep your business.