Are we discussing that?
So they were both crazy.
What is there to discuss?
So they were both crazy.
What is there to discuss?
Yes, the issue is “extremist” and easy access to weapons.
So there are crazy people who resort to senseless violence who lean left.
Did he have a manifesto too or just likes and comments on social media? His rape and kill list should have been enough to get him some special attention and from what I saw he was one fucked up kid.
So what’s the bigger story with him? That he was fucked in the head and idolized satan or that he wanted to behead oil execs?
If you are trying to draw an equivalency with the manifesto written by the fucked up kid from Allen to drove to El Paso, you need to spell it out for me to see.
There are good and bad people on both sides.
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put these folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
What I’m getting at is that when we blame Trump for the El Paso shooting and not the Left for the hatred in the Dayton shooter we are practicing political opportunism. That’s disingenuous. The Dayton kid doesn’t get a pass because he didn’t write a “manifesto.” If he had it would have been calling for a “revolution against the rich.” Where’s he come up with stuff like that? EVERYONE in politics needs to tone it down. We are standing at opposite sides of the see-saw trying to get our side to win. I can’t stand it. Everyone needs to move to the middle and have a chat.
So they were both crazy.
What is there to discuss?
Yes, the issue is “extremist” and easy access to weapons.
yeah now it is :rolleyes:
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put these folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put these folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
No kidding. That’s rich. The vilification of the right here WRT the recent shootings has been epic.
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put thjese folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
No kidding. That’s rich. The vilification of the right here WRT the recent shootings has been epic.
By me?
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put these folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
I just did, didn’t I?
What I’m getting at is that when we blame Trump for the El Paso shooting and not the Left for the hatred in the Dayton shooter we are practicing political opportunism. That’s disingenuous. The Dayton kid doesn’t get a pass because he didn’t write a “manifesto.” If he had it would have been calling for a “revolution against the rich.” Where’s he come up with stuff like that? EVERYONE in politics needs to tone it down. We are standing at opposite sides of the see-saw trying to get our side to win. I can’t stand it. Everyone needs to move to the middle and have a chat.
Well, you are just pulling that out of your ass. You have no idea why the Dayton killer acted, but we do know why the El Paso killer acted. He provided lots of talking points that echoed republican talking points. He specifically travelled 500 miles from home to kill more brown people. He specifically did not shoot white people.
We have no idea why the Dayton killer acted, so you should stop pretending you do.
Are we discussing that?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...utives-beheaded.html
"if you look at the people who post here, there is a reliable attachment to a set of orthodox beliefs. if you idolize the gun you also back voter suppression tactics. if you think brown people are invading your country you also think climate science is overblown. if you believe in deregulating clean air and water you also think the southern strategy is a myth. if you believe in every-man-for-himself health care you are also skeptical of science.
none of this stuff goes together in any rational way - none of these views follow logically from the other - but they are all pieces of the coalition that, together, form the republican voting bloc. part of that coalition is the evangelical christian, and the christians don’t realize they’ve been co-opted, and the belief system i described above has replaced the apostle’s creed as the organizing principle of the christian-republican life well lived.
when you leave the soup on the stove unattended, the water boils off, and you get the concentrated essence. that’s trump. he’s republicanism boiled down to its naked, concentrated essence and perhaps that’s why, when you read from the trump acolytes, it seems so strident.
republican orthodoxy is now seen by those under 30 as the belief system of losers and fools. as today’s population ages, republicanism is going to have to adapt or lose its relevance. adaptation will mean jettisoning some of these beliefs. we’re just going to have to wait until the republican orthodoxy becomes uncool. smoking was cool until it wasn’t. the younger generation sees it for what it is. as with smoking,** i hope retrumplicans will wake up one day and decide they don’t want to do this anymore. at some point, those who value conservative principles will realize that the war on women, gays, non-christians, non-whites, the wars on fact and science, the wars waged on behalf of large corporate polluters and wealth aggregators, have poisoned the conservative well**.
when all this eventually comes about, hopefully we’ll have fashioned a better option for those whose current pathway is to kill as many of their neighbors as they can.
Can you post a version of this for the Democratic party as well?
yes i can. the difference is, nobody ends up dead. what trump has done is appeal to fears and insecurities that sit deep on the brain stem of those who’re worried that they’re unequipped for the ever-increasingly-rapid pace of change. trump trumpets the source of your problems. and he champions the means by which you solve that problem. **if you know who your enemy is, and you’ve got the tool to deal with it, there’s the pathway to el paso and ohio. **
parts of the democratic story do " Posted from a different thread
This was disgusting and vile when it was posted. It is just as disgusting and vile today,
KAY and Chapparal, who wanted to justify and trumpet this disgust and vile as “just generalizations” will now try to distract you with how the environment is really not a left or right wing thing. And how we are NOW talking about gun control being the real issue.
I suspect Chapparal has a reason why the guy who shot up the congressional softball game did so as well that will dazzle you.
The fact is there are insane people of all parts of the political spectrum who do this. And that anyone who chooses to “use” their acts to further justify their political position, rather than focusing on the real issues are not part of the solution.
These are some of the same people who will heap derision of those that offer thoughts and prayers to the victims, the families and the communities. But will then turn around and take positions about the “reasons” for this happening that suit their political agendas.
Hopefully those that want to have legitimate discussions here about things like controlling gun violence will take the opportunity to review the positions of some of these regular posters. And will recall them when other political subjects come up and they take similar positions. Hopefully we will all give their future opinions and posts the weight they so richly deserve.
- Were the killings in both politically motivated? 2) What were the motivations in the killings? 3) were certain groups targeted in both killings, 4) has Elizabeth warren been known for her hate speech/inciting violence/demonizing the group of people that were murdered by the ohio shooting? 5) has the FBI labelled both killers as terrorists. The differences seem to be pretty clear.
The killers were both had extremist views. But that can be very different on why there were killings. This is not the case here. But if someone was in an extremist group and killed a wife/girlfriend for domestic reasons, the killings would not be politically motivated.
If we are arguing that people with extremist points of view are more prone to violence, I would probably agree. But the differences in situations on why people blame trump vs. Warren are pretty clear.
I am also pretty sure that if Warrens language was mentioned by a killer, she would change her language.
What I’m getting at is that when we blame Trump for the El Paso shooting and not the Left for the hatred in the Dayton shooter we are practicing political opportunism. That’s disingenuous. The Dayton kid doesn’t get a pass because he didn’t write a “manifesto.” If he had it would have been calling for a “revolution against the rich.” Where’s he come up with stuff like that? EVERYONE in politics needs to tone it down. We are standing at opposite sides of the see-saw trying to get our side to win. I can’t stand it. Everyone needs to move to the middle and have a chat.
I used to be a Republican before Trump turned the party into a cult of personality, so I’ve got no party affiliation or team and I’m calling it like I see it. So I find myself in the middle. I’m willing to chat. But not without acknowledging the facts.
Trump’s language was present in the El Paso shooter’s manifesto… even though the shooter said he wanted to kill Mexicans before Trump. Something flipped in him recently. He drove 10 hours to kill as many Mexicans as he could. Why now? I don’t know. Did he see something on the news or social media or was words from Trump. He acknowledges Trump in his manifesto- so he brought him into the discussion. I don’t find continuing to explore the connection of Trump and his words with the shooter disingenuous, in fact it is a natural consequence of the facts.
What’s disingenuous- and not consistent with all human history- is failing to acknowledge the impact of language and tone of the POTUS or any country’s leader has on the actions, feelings, and direction of their country.
The reality is that many people are already in the middle and we would be best served by moderates. Our two party system is broke and panders to the extremes and fails to serve the middle.
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put thjese folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
No kidding. That’s rich. The vilification of the right here WRT the recent shootings has been epic.
By me?
Sorry. My post wasn’t meant to be directed specifically at you. The “targets” know who they are. 
I don’t think it’s all that useful to put these folks on the right or left, more important to understand if they have extremist views and what those are and if they are motivating them to kill people.
Hmmmm … tell that the usual suspects of the LR posting on this topic in the other threads …
No kidding. That’s rich. The vilification of the right here WRT the recent shootings has been epic.
the grievance is strong in you today.
no, the right is not getting vilified for the recent shootings. can i try to help? when someone in authority, who’s job it is to lead us, says crazy stupid incendiary shit, the responsibility is for folks on that side to come down hard on that speech. so, when omar said crazy stupid shit - and anyone, from any side, can say crazy stupid shit - she got a toilet flushed on her head by those on her side.
when donald j raceman, or steve king, says crazy stupid shit, the job of those on his team is to shout that down. the right isn’t getting vilified, tho it would be nice if the leaders on the right showed that they have a little spine.
you have a hair trigger today. breathe deeply. the government is not coming for you. if you buy another gun, service the AC on your bunker, or buy another pallet of MREs, you’re just going to feel foolish next month. even JSA, who’s fluffing your ardor in this thread, is having a decent conversation with me elsewhere.
No kidding. That’s rich. The vilification of the right here WRT the recent shootings has been epic.
When Islamic extremists blew up the buildings on 9/11, we told U.S. Muslims to get their fucking house in order, and stat.
I think, given the last year or two of white nationalist shootings, it’s time to tell right wingers to get their fucking house in order, and stat. (And I’m sorry, white nationalists are a wing of the right, just like antifa is a wing of the left).
And after this leftist one it’s safe to tell leftist extremists to get their house in order.
The pleasant fiction of “it was one mentally ill man pulling the trigger, acting alone” is getting old on all sides.
So they were both crazy.
What is there to discuss?
They were both male (as have been all/nearly all) of these shooters.