Is Vineman's wave start order wonky or am I just spoiled?

Triathlon Forum
1

Almost every race I’ve ever done has put the younger people in front of the older people so that, for the most part, the fast people are in front and the slower people are in back. This minimizes the amount of passing done on the bike course. Vineman, however, does it like this:

All Pros
Men 40-41
Men 42-44
Women 29 & Under
Men 30-32
Men 33-34
Women 30-34
Men 29 & Under
Women 45+
Men 50+
Women 35-39
Men 35-36
Men 37
Men 38-39
Women 40-44
Men 45-49

As a 25 year old male, I started about mid-way through the wave start order. The swim was great, but once I got on to the bike, I found myself having to pass hundreds of people. Normally that would be fine, but at Vineman, people don’t seem to understand the concept of “ride on the right, pass on the left” and this made it very dangerous out on the hilly, twisty course. There were even a few people who would start swerving side to side when I passed them. One guy was literally riding from one edge of the road to the other edge on a steep pitch, making it impossible to pass him safely. There were a few draft packs (of course) but a weirdly high number of one-on-one wheel suckers. And, particularly dangerous, were the number of people who slammed on their brakes in the right turns. That may have been the worst – approaching a corner that you could safely take at 20mph only to have the person in front of you slam on their brakes and take it at 5mph.

Anyways. Enough of my complaining! Is Vineman’s start order weird or have I just been spoiled by always being in the first few waves of young people?

(By the way, Vineman, overall, was a fantastic race. Excepting the fallen tree, of course…)

2

Yes you are spoiled. Russ changes the start order around every year so everyone eventually gets a chance at the better weather. Yesterday wasn’t typical as the fog burned off really early. There can easily be a +30 degree temperature swing so if you have a late start, you really are doing a different race than someone who starts early.

3

When I got into Germany 70.3 I looked at the start list and was thinking the same thing as you:

   category      MPro & FPro       Elite-Age group      F 18 - 70+       M 50 - 70       M 18 - 29       M 30       M 35      M 45       M 40      team relay

So I think I am just spoiled as being a “youngin” and always getting to start up front. But I am not sure who has it worse you or me with this upcoming race.

Brad

4

Many HIM’s mix it up in such a manner. I assume that this is done to minimize pack riding. If faster groups follow directly after each other, then riders of similar ability will be in close proximity and tend to clump together. Spreading faster groups throughout the course may force you to spend a lot of time passing slower riders, but decreases the overall amount of pack riding. In the case of Vineman, I think they change the order every year, so that different age groups get the enjoyment of running in the heat. In other large races with faster riders grouped together, did you notice more or less pack riding?

5

x2 on the weather. The temperature swings are enormous. It’s only fair to switch them around from year to year. Your ability to have open road is trumped by the desire to give hundreds and hundreds of other racers somewhat cooler temps every other year or so.

6

Yes, you are completely spoiled! Welcome to the world of ‘over 35 men and women who are faster than the average participant’. Thank goodness for Vineman for being one of the few races that has a great system of wave ordering. (by switching the wave order up year after year). I wish Wildflower and other races did that. Then the ‘older’ (but faster) women wouldn’t have to pass 500+ people on the bike and run at noon.

7

spoiled?? 35-39 and 40-44 are the spoiled ones…most dont even realize it and most dont take advantage of it…

serious question, isnt it an advantage to start in the 2nd or even better 3rd wave, or even better, 4th, 5th wave?

maybe not the big 70.3/140.6 IM branded races, but take a 500 -700 field, local race.

you can legally draft for 15 seconds, but considering you need to be out of the draft zone by than, lets say you can draft for 10 seconds than pass.

if you start out in the 5th wave and are an average swimmer but good biker, and each eave was on average 40 people, you will have to pass 1/2 of your wave plus maybe another 120 or so on the bike (you pass some swimmers from other waves, yet another drafting benefit)

so thats 140 people, x 10 seconds, 1400 seconds drafting or around 23 mintues. but of coure, you will double pass/tripple pass some people. so lets even cut that figure down 70%, you’re still drafting for a solid 8 minutes. Take a sprint race that takes the top bikes 30-35 minutes to complete, and you’re legally drafting for 25% of the race.

of crouse, one would have a hard time quantifying this, but I was thinking about this on my way back from an out and back this weekend, coming back all alone, and seeing people going out and thinking, I would love to be starting the bike with all those people to legally work of off…

but, maybe I’m just crazy…but to me, this is sounds like a good strategy, and as I would pass people, I would let them pull me for a good 5-10 seconds before passing…I am sure most AGers just zipp on by and waste this opporunity as they pass people…

of course, I know very little so, feel free to correct me…

EDIT…this is kind of a hijack and I am speaking in general terms…weather, like some speak of, could negate all of this benefit if some are running in 60 degress and others 90…with weaher conditions being equal, I’d rather start later…

8

Looks like the total opposite of Boise this year, where I started in one of the last waves and passed about a million people (and I’m not that fast). I think with 70.3 races waves are a total crap shoot. You never know what you’re gonna get.

9

but a weirdly high number of one-on-one wheel suckers.\

Here is a great reason right here for the start order. It is not weird, it is planned. Breaking up the fast mens groups at the start will go a long way in minimizing the bigger packs, and it exposes those that cheat intentionally more easily. Of course passing is a hassle, but it sounds like you were fine. After every race I have stories just lilke yours, but I pay attention and always keep the rubber side down. Passing effectivly is part of the sport, and as others have stated, can be a big advantage if you do it right. I once passsed over a 1000 people in a 1/2 race like this one, and it was one of the cleanest I have done in ages because of the broken waves. I’ll take that any day over 50 man fields rolling through a course…

10

I think you have a valid point in potentially benefitting from an ongoing slipstream of legally overtaking a steady diet of slower riders, BUT, that assumes they are riding single-file to the right like they’re supposed to. If they’re riding all over the lane, the combination of being blocked and having to swerve around (or worse, to evade getting sideswiped) may negate any positive draft effect. Also depends on how congested it is, if you’re passing 1 or 2 at a time vs bigger clumps, and how open the course is. Lots of slow riders + lots of turns = clusterfuck, as the OP indicated.

11

Where are these races where the M 25-29 starts up front? At the Boise 70.3 the last 2 years the M 25-29 has been the very last age group wave to start and I suppose I had just assumed that all wave start races used this same order, that it was some sort of protocol (that is the only wave start race I have done). I thought the idea was to have the slowest waves start first and the fastest waves start last to minimize the amount of time the course was open. It does make it so that you spend the entire bike and run weaving through crowds out there “for the experience” (not that there is anything wrong with that) but I just thought that was the way it was. Having the theoretically faster waves start first and the theoretically slower waves start last seems like a recipe for having to keep the course open for 10 hours for a half.

12

Spoiled!
I know that if I have a late start this year, it will be better next year. At 54 it is nice to not have to start behind everyone all of the time.

13

Yeah, you’re totally spoiled! At Rhode Island 70.3 M 25-29 was the 2nd to last swim wave, with M 18-24 going last. What was incredibly odd to me was W40+ was the very first AG wave, starting 3 min after the Pro Women (which were 2 min after Pro Men).

14

Remember, at Vineman you have Barbs half swim waves going off later. So if you have an early swim wave and fast on the bike you will be catching/passing anyway.

PS: And yes you’re spoiled:) I’m 57 and most races I get the second to last wave(:

See you at the race.

15

Looks like I’m totally spoiled! I’ll try to savor the times when I start in the 2nd or 3rd wave from here on out.

But still, that doesn’t change the fact that an alarming number of Vineman competitors were just taking up the whole road, making passing incredibly dangerous on the descents.

16

But still, that doesn’t change the fact that an alarming number of Vineman competitors were just taking up the whole road, making passing incredibly dangerous on the descents.

Yea, it got crowded when I raced VM 70.3 last year. I was actually involved in a bike crash, nothing that bad…I was VERY lucky. You will be passing most of my AG(me) and some Barbs. “I think” there is less then half the people racing the full/Barbs.

The roads are open, so be careful. I did see some crazy shit by some frustrated drivers.

PS: Are you going to the wine tasting Thurs?

17

Oh, I raced the 70.3. I’d like to do the full someday, though. After St. George, I’ll only ever do indie iron-distance races.